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Jun 1
  • Written By Ashley Jo Brewer

    • #103 – Lucas Crigler

    #103 - Lucas Crigler

    Transgender Man & Activist Shares His Recovery

    June is Pride month, and we’re honored to kick off the month with the story of transgender man and activist Lucas Crigler. Lucas talks about everything from sobriety, to surgeries, to being trans and navigating the world in his body.

    Lucas is an advertising Creative Director at McCann Worldgroup in New York City. Throughout his career he’s worked on brands such as The New York Lottery, Hornitos Tequila, TGIFriday’s, Vibram FiveFingers, Mike and Ike candies, Honda, and Mastercard. His work has earned Clio Awards, Gold Lion Awards, One Show Pencils, and was even nominated for a Creative Arts Emmy.

    Through his instagram account (@CoolTransLuke), Lucas is a transgender activist and has been featured by companies such as Alan Cummings’ brand “RockSoup,” MarcoMarco Underwear, LogoTV, Tinder, OUT Magazine, BravoTV’s “Get A Room,” Tom Hardy, and MTV’s “One Style Fits All.”

    While not grinding in his day-to-day, Lucas enjoys spending time strolling Brooklyn with his two Boxer dogs and staying fit by hitting the gym. 

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    Episode Transcript

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Hello beautiful people, welcome to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast. My name is Ashley Loeb Blassingame, and I am your host. Welcome if you are joining us for the first time and welcome back if you are a regular listener. Today, we have Lucas Crigler. Lucas is an advertising creative director at McCann Worldgroup in New York City throughout his career, he’s worked on brands such as the New York Lottery, [inaudible 00:00:27], TGI Friday’s, Vibram FiveFingers, Mike and Ike Honda and MasterCard. His work has earned Clio awards, Gold Lion Awards, One Show Pencils, and was even nominated for a creative arts Emmy, killing it through his Instagram account @cooltransluke. Lucas is a transgender activist and has been featured by companies such as Alan Cummings, brand Rocksoup, Marco Marco underwear, logo TV, Tinder, Out Magazine, Bravo TV’s, Get a Room, Tom Hardy and MTV’s One Style Fits All.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    While not grinding in his day-to-day Lucas enjoys spending time, strolling Brooklyn with his two boxer dogs and staying fit by hitting the gym. This is an awesome episode talking about something that can often be controversial in the sense that a lot of people use the wrong terminology to talk about the trans community. I really wanted to get someone on the podcast who is transgender and also in recovery, and can talk about both of those things independently and alongside one another. We had a great conversation. Lucas was really helpful in explaining surgery’s, gender, sexual orientation, he walked me through a lot of the feelings. A lot of the reasons why people drank a lot of the reasons why people struggle when looking at former pictures. There’s a lot of questions that I had that Lucas made me feel comfortable to ask so that he could guide me in the right way to talk about these topics, which I really appreciated because sometimes the truth is I want to be an ally and I don’t always know how to talk about the topics. Or I don’t always understand why certain issues are difficult and others aren’t.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So it was just a really informative, helpful conversation. And we got to talk about recovery and Lucas did something really cool with MasterCard called True Name, which he let us in on. And they did a campaign for the trans community. And I learned a lot and it was a really fun… We laughed a lot as well, and it was really fun conversations. So I urge you to check this out, have an open mind, listen, learn something a really wonderful time with Lucas. All right. So episode 103. Let’s do this.

    Speaker 1:

    You are listening to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast. We’re a community of recovering people who have overcome the odds and found the courage to change. Each week, we share stories of recovery from substance abuse, eating disorders, grief, and loss, childhood trauma, and other life-changing experiences. Come join us no matter where you are on your recovery journey.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Lucas, thank you so much for being here. I’m really excited.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I’m very excited as well. Thank you so much for having me on Ashley.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’ve been trying to get you to come on this podcast for a while. You’ve been busy and I’m glad that my persistence paid off.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, me too. It’s been a long time coming, but I hope I make it with the wait.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, I’m sure. I’m sure. So you are a person in recovery and you’ve had… Oh, I can’t forget this. So we started… Every episode in season three, we start off with a crazy… We call it bad hair cut picture, hairstyle, whatever. But the one you sent, I’m like, “That’s not that bad. You look good.” If that’s bad, you’re doing all right. But anyway, we start with this photo. So I have this photo of you. Do you know which photo I’m talking about?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yes. Yes I do. And it’s yeah… Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You want to tell me about it?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, it was… Yeah it was my failed attempt at trying to dye my hair.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, home hair color. Been to that party. 1-800-CLAIROL. So you were trying to go blonde and it went a little orange?

    Lucas Crigler:

    I didn’t realize that there were so many steps in having short hair. I ended up just abandoning the whole thing. I just said, “I’m going to let it grow out at this point.” Luckily I’ve got short hair, so it didn’t take too long. It was maybe like six months max for it to completely grow up.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, you didn’t leave it?

    Lucas Crigler:

    No, I didn’t shave it. I had more hair when I had this and now my hair is a little bit thinner. But hopefully not due to this one incident of too much dye. But yeah, are you showing it?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Its awesome. I have been… I’ve done this and even worse, I was trying to do the Geri Halliwell Spice Girls thing and do the streaks and instead it was like the orange streaks.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. It went like super… Well yeah, it could have been worse, I guess it could have been a lot more orange. But I know that you’re supposed to do some sort of treatment afterwards and I just didn’t have it. And yeah, it was all right. I probably have worse, but I didn’t want to show any…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Like really bad?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Well, if you go too far back and I just don’t even look… There’s a lot of what my fashion sense that was completely off. You know what I mean? So I didn’t want to get too far back and ruin the whole spiel of my whole life. But I don’t know if… I’m trying to save my story for the meat of the conversation here.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Let’s get it. It’s actually a great place to start because, talking about what this is… How long ago was this picture that we’re looking at?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. That wasn’t too long ago, actually. That was only like… I was living in LA. So 2017, 2016? [crosstalk 00:07:07] younger.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. So let’s… One thing I want to be really transparent with you about this conversation is I did a whole bunch of research and was like, “What things are… Trying to not say the wrong thing or trying to use the right terminology and that kind of thing.” And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on this podcast was that you’re sober, but you also identify as trans. And there’s so many people… I have conversations with so many people about how we want to be supportive, but we feel like we can’t ask any questions or talk about it in the right way. We don’t know how, or if there’s things we don’t understand and we want to ask questions about, but we don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings and that kind of thing. So I really want to get into the conversation with you and hopefully I will do it in the right way. And if not, you can help me, tell me what to…

    Lucas Crigler:

    Absolutely.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Because I think there’s a lot of people out there who feel that way. It’s like they’re afraid, and even I have this feeling, they’re afraid to get into it because they don’t want to say the wrong thing. And they don’t want to be… We all want to be woke. We don’t want to say the wrong thing. But tell me about you, tell me about sobriety. Tell me about… Start with what your childhood home looked like and where you grew up, what’s your background.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, absolutely. I do want to preface this and get my own personal disclaimer here, that my story doesn’t look like everybody else’s. Being trans, we all experienced life just as individuals typically do in different ways with different life paths. And just because we’re all trans doesn’t mean that we’re all the same and sharing the same experiences. So my story is unique in that, I was actually very lucky. I grew up in a very accepting household. My parents raised me just really with a bunch of love, like an abundance of love, abundance of acceptance. I was adopted. I was a month old when I was adopted. And I’d like to think that the reason… And actually my parents are also pretty Christian. We grew up in a Christian household, but also a [inaudible 00:09:39]. So [inaudible 00:09:42] household was… My mom was Catholic, my dad was Presbyterian and they landed in the middle.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That’s amazing.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I lucked out in a sense that the way they interpret Christianity, the Episcopalians we had a lesbian minister. We were the first denomination to be really accepting, I think. And with that Christian background, my parents also take from the Bible, like the good parts I was raised with judge not unless you be judged and love thy neighbor. I cannot praise my mom and dad more and just their full-hearted acceptance and they’re still together. And I got to say that my story is just very unique in that sense for a trans person. It doesn’t always end like that. And my heart goes out to those circumstances and those people who live that life.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But yeah, so that’s how it started. I was a month old and I think my parents they just decided whatever God gives to us, we’re going to accept them and I’ve taken the… I have run the gamut.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They’re like, “Wow. You’re really putting us to the test aren’t you?” Taking it literally.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Everything. Maybe they’re kicking their selves, but they made it very clear to us… My brother, I say us because my brother was also adopted and we’re not even biologically related and he’s a couple years younger than me. I think that just this acceptance and also being very aware that we were adopted so young, made… They were like, “Let’s see what these kids are going to be.” The world was at our fingertips.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I love them for that. They put me in all the sports, but not just sports, ballet, I was in piano lessons, ballet. Just what are they going take to? My parents are math oriented. I ended up being an artist, I’m very athletic, they’re not. My mom always laughed, she’s like, they golf, but they’re very like… They’re nerds, but it was interesting to see where I took it. And then obviously with that being said, I literally have come into my truest self because of them. And I owe it all to them where I’ve just had every experience truly. And just been like, “This is me, to the fullest.” At this point, 2021, I’d never felt more completely aligned with everything, that I’ve ever wanted to be. And so now, obviously there are other goals in life that I’d love to do. Visit Tahiti someday or something. I don’t know, snorkeling into Tahiti. But yeah, I’m very fortunate.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    When did you start to look around or did you? Maybe you didn’t but look around and go, “I am not sure you and I are the same…” Or like, “I feel differently than all these other people…” Or something like that. Notice a difference.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. It was for me… Because I was able… I was so accepted. You’ll have trans people who came out in the middle of the country or in a non accepting place. And they are the pioneers even, back in the day when it wasn’t accepted really anywhere and they have paved the way. And I know people who, their parents have disowned them. They’re the only person in this Podunk town getting their hormones from Mexico across the border, back in the day and are like, “I am trans, I don’t know anybody else that is, I’ve never seen myself. I don’t even know…” And there, I mean, wow. I just really am amazed by them and very thankful for, especially the people that came before us. I didn’t feel the need, I guess.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And those types of people sometimes, they think that, I’m not grouping them. But I’m saying that there is sometimes a bit of discrepancy between people in our community that are like… Because you’ve taken your time to transition, or you’re not choosing to do it this particular way, you’re not as trans as me. And that’s not really fair.

    Lucas Crigler:

    There is a spectrum just as if there’s a spectrum of sexuality, there’s a spectrum of gender as well. There are polar… The polls… The binary of male, female, there’s the binary of straight, gay. But everything in between the bisexuality and then also the gender is a vast gradient. So I took my time. So then I explored the entire damn gradient, [crosstalk 00:15:13] folicking through the gradient.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Amazing.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Because I didn’t feel the need. I was never feeling like I needed to push anybody out of my life or push away from something or I didn’t feel rejected. I felt accepted every step of the way. So I didn’t feel this tension of like, “F you on this, I’m out of here.” It wasn’t a life or death thing for me, so I cruised. For better, for worse, but I’m also the type of person that wanted to experience everything. And I just was brought up that way. So when I was a very young child, and a lot of trans people point to these times in their life. They say, “Well, when I was in first grade, when I was out of the womb essentially…” When you’re a little child, I don’t know the psychological, like actual medical textbook that you can read about it. Gender and sexuality and all that really doesn’t exist.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You’re just a kid playing in the sandbox. And all through elementary school, I was… I had a brother, I had cousins and stuff that were guys. But like I said, I also had the opportunity to express my femininity as it were as a child. I told my mom when I was in first grade for a birthday party, I said, “Tell everyone, you need to tell all their parents, mom, I don’t want dolls. I don’t want dolls do not…” I demanded that nobody brought me dolls for my birthday party. My first word was ball. And it was funny and I was actually known as the Umbro girl at the time. Because I don’t know if y’all know [inaudible 00:16:57], I’m an eighties kid. But they were like these shorts that were…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh Umbro. Yeah, yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, yeah,

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I thought it was something more complicated. Fashion, yes right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Fashion, yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Whatever it was the checker… They were like checker… Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. I refused to wear anything but [inaudible 00:17:18] for a while. It was like these bright green ones. It was just like, I wasn’t addressed… We would go to church and my brother would be fiddling with his tie and hating it and taking it off and always complaining about it. And I’m sitting here looking at him, being like, “You’re lucky you get to wear a suit and a tie. That’s cool. That’s easy. I don’t want to wear this dress.” So I knew at a very young age. Now, as I was progressing through life, there becomes a social aspect of it. And I got in high school, actually well, I played soccer. I really took to soccer. My parents finally had to call it down and say, “We can’t do all the sports. So you got to choose one.” I took the soccer, I cut my hair short because I was tired of it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I didn’t want to ever wear it back. I just didn’t like it. And so I would always have it in my face. And I was like, “Oh, I got to get this out of my face.” I cut it short. And then I started… I remember being in recess one time in elementary school, I kicked the soccer… I was really good at it… And I was also… I tried out. Anyways, I kicked the ball over the goal, which was a big feat for 10 year olds. And then I remember the goalie was a boy and he looked up and he’s like, “Whoa.” He watched it go over the net. And he turns around he is, “Are you a boy or a girl?” It was just like, he couldn’t believe it. And I was like, “A girl.” I didn’t like the stigma that was coming with being mistaken for a boy because it wasn’t accepted. And it was all… It was just the stigma.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But did you know… I always wonder about, did you know that that was what was going to happen? Like when you cut your hair short, did you… Or was that surprising?

    Lucas Crigler:

    I was clueless. As a kid, I just was being me, and my parents were letting me be me and at home, I wasn’t up against that. I have pictures that you can share with your audience, [inaudible 00:19:15] words, I’m dressed in ninja turtles stuff. I was just having fun and being myself and I love to… But like I’m saying then middle school rolled around and I just got constantly like… Actually, even in first grade I also had a really deep voice. Apparently I used to have this PE teacher that would find me in middle school. My mom was also a school teacher. So, I’d see her and she’d be like, “I remember you you’re that kid with that deep voice, like, [inaudible 00:19:49].”

    Lucas Crigler:

    I was like, “Thanks for calling me out.” I didn’t like it, I didn’t like the stigma. And so I even started changing my voice. I started to socially adapt. I started seeing that girls are supposed to act this way and girls are flirting with guys. And I remember training my voice to be more flirty. I remember making the cognizant decision, like the effect of the end and like the flirtiness and I made it… And I grew my hair out. I said, “I’m never going to be mistaken again. I don’t like this.” And I started dating guys and did what I could. Of course I dated… All the guys that I dated were my best friends, we played video games together. And we would do all the sports together and all this stuff.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And I loved [inaudible 00:20:48] around I’m from Virginia. So we’d have a lot of fishing or whatever we’d do outside. I was just like, I loved it. But ultimately, my sexual attraction, I… Okay, so I guess middle school, I remember having a crush on a softball teacher or softball coach. And that was my first like, “Oh oh, I had this thought.” And I pushed it out my mind because I was in like young life. I was a Christian also. And my first boyfriend actually was a minister’s son. So we were… Through my head, I was just like, these are impure thoughts. I can’t think about this. And then I had another boyfriend, my longest relationship was with a guy even to this day… And we’re still really good friends, actually. It’s funny, but yeah, I ended up going to college and all through college, I was dating this other guy. And then I was in Virginia still. I didn’t stray too far from home.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You were still presenting as female?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Oh yeah. I have pictures of…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Through college?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yes, through college. That it’s such a stark difference to see how I was as a child versus college. I just wanted to fit in and then I had this boyfriend who was like an ex Marine, and I wanted to impress him. But he didn’t even really care, but it was just like, I don’t know… I just didn’t even think, it wasn’t even an option really. And I hear a lot of trans stories that are like that. That are just like I don’t know, why fight it? I just was like, “Well, I was born with this and this is how it is.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So do you feel like… And this is the way that I think about it and the way that I’ve described it to other people when I’m talking to them. I can’t imagine what it would feel like to be born in the wrong body. Everything else, like every other political, whatever… Like trying to be right. All I have to do to have empathy and compassion for the situation is like, I don’t know what that would feel like. Because that never occurred to me. And I think that’s sometimes why it’s so hard for people to understand is because that’s like… In my head, that’s like me being born thinking I’m a dog or whatever. Like, I don’t know. It just didn’t occur to me that, that could happen. And so when I see people…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And now, I have little kids and I have two little boys and I see it in other kids. You see it in little kids. They’re being themselves. It’s totally, you can see it’s totally biological whatever’s happening is happening. And it’s interesting to me, what that would feel like, thinking about it from that perspective. And then you start to add in everything that the world is telling you. So there’s the confusion right up front. And then there’s the…

    PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:24:04]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. There’s the confusion right up front. And then there’s the confusion as you go into well, what is this? And if you’ve never been exposed to anyone who’s trans, then you don’t even know what’s going on. Right? Is that, does that assess? That’s what it looked like from afar.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I think that, I mean, for me, like I said, I’ve always been me. And everybody says that. All the trans people that you talk to is like, “Well, I’ve always been me inside. I’ve always me.” And looking back at pictures, it makes me cringe. I don’t want to completely discount my past, I had beautiful experiences, a really nice upbringing, but I think maybe I just avoided mirrors a lot. I was just being myself and the really, really wild thing. And there was a moment, I mean, a specific moment, but I mean, definitely a solid period of my life where I started and excuse me because it will get into, if you want to talk… first of all, I don’t want to be the entire voice for the trans community, but I can tell you how I feel about things and then how other people… how it could be received.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But there’s a thing called passing and passing as a male. I pass as a male now, because I think I can sit in the back of an Uber and the Uber driver won’t realize that I’m trans. And that was my go-to marker being here in New York. And there’s a thing called passing privilege too. That I can kind of fly below the radar and not get called out, and it’s safer for me where it might not be for other people that can be called out. And there are other people that may not have access to hormones for religious reasons, for health reasons, et cetera. Might not want to take their transition to that extent to being completely binary, a male or a female.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But for me, just for the sake of this conversation, my point where I was like, “I am my true self,” was when I was passing because it wasn’t how I felt that changed. It was how people saw me and treated me. And it is a real wild thing to experience that because I’m like, “Woah.” It’s almost like you’ve been completely trapped in this shell. I’m me, I’m just being me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right. Personality wise, you’re just being yourself.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. I’m just being me. And then all of a sudden people are seeing you. I just remember there was this one guy even here at the… I work in advertising at the agency that high-fived me, I guess. It all happened very fast. I went on hormones and within a year and a half, I was passing even. Maybe even a year. And I remember the guy, it was maybe a year and a half into my transition, he high-fived me because he’d seen me in the beginning. He’s like, “Hey man. Yeah!” He’s like, “You know, Lucas, when you first got here,” he was like, “I could tell.” It was so weird. I was like, “This is such a horrible…” first of all, don’t say this to a trans person because… I’m really easy-going and I’m chill about things like this, especially because I knew this guy on a more personal friend level, but it was still a weird thing to say. I wouldn’t recommend it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But he was like, “I could tell when you first got to the agency, but now man, no. I couldn’t even tell,” He’s like, “Yeah!” He high-fived for it. That’s inappropriate on multiple levels, but it was weird because I was like, “I’m still me.” You know what I mean? The whole time.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So a question about that. Why is commenting… so if someone, and again, I’m going to ask questions that may make me sound like a serious loser, but if I’m commenting on somehow how someone like, “Oh, you’ve lost weight. You have a great haircut. Check out that tattoo. Oh, I like that new facial hair,” whatever, those types of things that’s… well, depending on the work situation, it’s relatively normal. Right? Acceptable. Why is commenting on any type of transition when it is… in this case, it’s what you wanted, right? So he’s saying, “You got it, man. You look great. Look at this transition! You’re doing such like… I’m loving it. You know, I could tell before…” He’s validating what it is you wanted. Why is that inappropriate?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Okay. Again, my own opinion. Like I said, I was like, “That’s cool. I’m being accepted.” However, let me just spin it this way from a different perspective, right? So think about it in terms of… ironically, I just saw a really nice advertising campaign for this, where the, in parentheses, is for A. So if you think about it in this sense like, “Wow, you’re really good at that sport for a girl,” Or “You look really good for your age.” You know what I mean? “You look really good for a trans person.” “You look just like a guy for a trans person. I would have never known.” So in that context, and you have to think about people’s intent when it’s… for me, I was like, “Wow, I’m being accepted.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    But there are moments even in my career and other moments where I’m like, “Are people just impressed with me because I’m trans?” You know what I mean? Is it just because for being trans? No, I just want to be a special guy. I don’t want to be like a special trans guy. It’s all about the context. And if you’re good friends with somebody you’ve talked to them for a while, I don’t think it’s that inappropriate personally.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But if you don’t know them. Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. I mean, you can say, “Wow, you look really good!” I don’t know. Maybe even the “Wow.” I think that if you tell anybody that you look good, I think that’s a compliment. Personally. Or if you’re like, “You’re looking good,” or I don’t know. Or like, “Wow.” For me, I’ve told my trans buddy friends “Look at that goatee coming in.” You know what I mean? We’re high-fiving on each other on the steps, the milestones. So that’s fun. But obviously you got to know them and feel it out. Yeah. [inaudible 00:30:43]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    How does your drinking fit into your story around being trans? Are those two things related at all?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Looking back, yes. At the time, I started drinking my hardest when I was dealing with my sexuality in Atlanta, Georgia when I was in post-grad and I was distracted by a lot of things and just dealing with trying to escape a lot of things. Alcohol for me, has always been kind of a lie. When I’ve been drinking my hardest has been during times of my life where I’m trying to avoid bigger things that are happening and just not think about it. And I stopped drinking the first time. Yeah. First time when I was out in Los Angeles and I had just taken my second or third shot of testosterone, we have to inject testosterone. And it started out as a this girl-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Wait, that was your first time ever?

    Lucas Crigler:

    That I ever stopped drinking. Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh that was stop drinking. Sorry, right. I’m like “Wait. [inaudible 00:32:00]”

    Lucas Crigler:

    This girl, I don’t know, we kind of had a little tiff at a bar and then it ended up being a challenge than an off color challenge. It was like, “Well, you do this,” or “You do that.” And “I can’t believe that you’re criticizing me for X, Y, Z, when you drink so much,” that was her comment.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I’m not going to spill the beans about what I was saying about her. And I was like, “Oh yeah, well watch this.” And I put it down. But, not to make excuses, but I actually should’ve done that a long time ago when I was in LA. I hadn’t. I was partying in different ways than I should have been, but alcohol wasn’t… I never hit rock bottom with alcohol there.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I had done that prior. Cause if you do that in LA, it’s social suicide. I’ve talked about this before, but you don’t want to be the one stumbling around a bar in LA because your friend… it’s very judgmental city and the people won’t want anything to do with you. So I really minded it. But at the same time, it was a health reason because I knew I was just starting my transition. It was much easier in that sense. I’ve felt so confident and so put together, and it was a new lease on life for me with starting testosterone and stopping drinking, regardless of why I got there, how I got there, I got there. And I was there for a year and a half and I enjoyed it. I loved it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And then I started again, I fell off. I went through AA. I actually traveled across the country from LA to New York. Now I’m in New York. And I started again, just… I don’t know, I fell off. I have a girlfriend and I love her to death, but it was a social thing. I started thinking more and more and it was more of a phase. I didn’t go out the first night and get wasted. It was a New Year’s Eve. I had a glass of champagne. And then I was like, “Well…” And even since then, I’ve handled myself. I haven’t had any moments where it’s been crazy, but I just had my third top surgery, which is a chest surgery. I think that everybody on your audience can understand what that would mean for a trans guy. But yeah, I had my first surgery and there were complications. Then I had a seroma, it was stupid. It’s been a real journey getting my chest and my body physically to the point that I want.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Is it normally three? How many surgeries is-

    Lucas Crigler:

    No. Well, for my type of surgery, I had peri-areola, which is where they go around the areolas and they suck the fat out and then they tie, I don’t know how much detail you already got, but anyways. Yeah. Okay. Then they tie the circle tighter. You don’t really have any scars cause it’s around your area. So it’s very minimal. And you have to be very small chested in order to qualify for that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I see, I see.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So there’s a bit of a social thing in our trans world where so many guys are like, or even nonbinary people, also get top surgery. Anybody can have top surgery, screw it. If you want top surgery, you can have top surgery. You get top surgery. Everybody, get whatever you want!

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You know, at the end of this I might.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. I know, right? It’s more comfortable. You’re fitting your clothes better. I recommend it. But anyways.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’m married kids, it’s downhill from here.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Carry more groceries, it’s practical. Real practical. But anyways-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So there’s a hierarchy, if you have… interestingly with boob jobs, there’s the same. If you go under the muscle, you go here, you have the areola or there’s also different mommy make-overs. If you have to have the lift or you had to… I live in Orange County. So it’s…

    Lucas Crigler:

    I love it. I love it. You get it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, yeah. There’s lots of surgery going on here. It’s no big deal. That’s why I’m like, “Wait, what’s the big deal with surgery? Doesn’t everyone have surgery?”

    Lucas Crigler:

    I know. I’m into it. Hey, we’re all modifying our bodies in some way. That’s the other thing. People maybe to get over the whole trans thing and body thing, because come on, you got your ears pierced, you got a tattoo. You’re doing it too. We’re all transitioning in some way. And so, cast the judgment aside, move to Orange County. See what happens. Join the team.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    There’s a lot of surgery going on here.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You will be an outcast in Orange County if you [crosstalk 00:36:42] do not have surgery.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 00:36:43] It’s true. It’s true.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You’ll be the weirdo.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So there’s hierarchy?

    Lucas Crigler:

    So there’s no scarring for that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right. If you have scars, [crosstalk 00:36:53] then you’re not as bougie?

    Lucas Crigler:

    [crosstalk 00:36:53] Well that’s the thing!

    Lucas Crigler:

    For me, I went in and I was like, “Look, I talked to the doctor and I kind of want, I don’t mind. I just want it to look it. I want the sculpting to be good on my chest.” I worked out a lot. I was like “I want to retain that.” It’s harder to retain with the peri-areola. But if you have double incision, which is underneath, you have the incisions, they can pull the skin up tight around the pecs. So you have a chance of… especially being in my age, my elasticy my chest. They explain “You’ll probably need a revision.” They tell you because there’ll be crinkling and stuff.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, I had the first one. I had a little bit of a complication and caused some scar tissue. I had a second one. Still, no bueno. Didn’t work. I went back in this third time only, I don’t know, a little over a month ago now. I guess I’m nine weeks out now, so a couple months ago. And voilà, I went with a different surgeon, I’m so happy. I like the scars. They’re minimal, this guy’s a pro. I lucked out at a friend of a friend who knew him and he got me in, he doesn’t even do the surgery. He does mostly bottom surgeries now. He’s a rockstar. I’m very, again, very fortunate. I mean, there are people that haven’t even had their first surgery. So I also try to contribute and donate where I can to kids’ funds. But anyways, my personal opinion about the scars, I think it creates more of a contour to your pec muscle. And they fade over time. I’ve seen guys and I can’t even tell if they’ve had top surgery.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So I don’t even know where this is going, but yeah. I’m happy with my results this time. Thank goodness. And then, I feel good. Oh yeah. So that was it. Oh, so this getting sober again. So this last time-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Wait. So tell us, how long were you sober for the first time? And then when did you relapse? And then how long are you sober now?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. So I was sober… oh gosh. I’m not good with dates, but the first time [crosstalk 00:38:59].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 00:38:59] Roughly. We won’t hold you, but.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Sure. Yeah. My Instagram account, it tells you when I started testosterone. So sober, I guess a couple of months before that, then I was sober for a year and a half. Well, a little over a year and a half. And then I fell off and then I was… and then during quarantine was when I really started realizing I got into a bad routine. I would get off of work, out here in New York, New York being New York, a big old F-you to the whole thing, we have bodegas out here. Those are like convenience stores. And they’re on every corner because I live in Brooklyn and our bodega was open. They stayed open, they didn’t care. And I would get off of work and there’s nothing to do in New York.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, I mean, there’s nothing to do in the world.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Quarantine, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And I would just go next door and get a michelada, a couple of micheladas. It wasn’t like I was getting wasted every night. That’s no excuse. Everybody has their own meter of alcoholism, what that looks like. But it was just, I did not… I just found myself drinking. If I was bored, I was happy if I was sad. My mom says that she’s an emotional eater. I’m an emotional drinker. I’m just like, “Let’s celebrate, I’ll have a drink. I’m sad, let’s have a drink. Oh, I’m bored, let’s have a drink.” So, and then with my surgery coming up and I know my first one, I don’t want to blame the surgeon fully, I definitely was drinking during my recovery. Not crazy drinking again, but it was just something that is poison for my body, I felt like. And if I’m trying to take all of these efforts and means to get my body to the point where I feel good about myself, why am I going to stump that grow or cause that any sort of detours?

    Lucas Crigler:

    And so… that’s a bad way to explain it. Anyways, my third surgery, I said, “I’m going to do it right.” I quit smoking. I had been smoking… growing up in Virginia, I was a smoker. And probably a closeted smoker. I think a lot of my fans on my Instagram page didn’t really even know.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So let me get this… hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Let’s check this out. So in your life, you came out as a lesbian, you’ve come out as transgender, transgender man. And…

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, I was engaged twice too, as a lesbian to two different women. I was out as a lesbian for 10 years, about. That’s how long I was taking to just [crosstalk 00:41:37] live life.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 00:41:38] So you’re first presenting female dating men. And then you went lesbian and then… but, and you have so much of this on your Instagram, but smoking are-

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You haven’t come out as a smoker to the world. This is amazing. That’s the level of shame that smoking has done now.

    Lucas Crigler:

    True.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’re all like “I’m going to come out, I’m going to change my mind,” blah, blah, blah. But smoking, f that. I’m not coming out. I love it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I came out officially. I really was like, “Look, I quit smoking.” Cause I was so happy about it. I’ve quit twice before in my life for three years. So I’m not out of the woods yet, but let me tell you.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’ve quit so many times and it’s-

    Lucas Crigler:

    It’s wild, right? And it’s so much harder, even harder than alcohol.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I mean, [crosstalk 00:42:30]. and then there was the vaping.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 00:42:30] Oh yeah. You think about it way more.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Oh my gosh. And I’m not trying to push, I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but it really, I would be raging and a cigarette, and I’m just back to chill. I’m not saying you should do it. I don’t. And I think that it actually takes an effort to be addicted, which was weird because I remember the first time I quit-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It tastes like shit the first time.

    Lucas Crigler:

    The first few times and I was doing it just to be cool. And then all of a sudden I was hooked. So luckily it does take an effort to be hooked, but once you’re hooked, you are hooked. And for the surgery, they said no nicotine at all. At all. Not even no [inaudible 00:43:14], nothing. Nope. Locally, my girlfriend was working in Miami, painting a mural for a friend for the first week because she would’ve had the wrath of Lucas. I’m very, very grateful that she wasn’t around for that first week. It would just happen to fall like that because I just was looking for things to be angry about. It was crazy.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So luckily, I made it through that and then I also quit drinking and I’ve been just trying to… I have not quit chocolate cake yet. That’s an issue.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    One thing at a time, my friend. One thing at a time.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I know!

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my god. Wait, so you’ve been sober 88 days?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, yeah. Yeah, 88 I guess. Is that what it is? I’m almost to 90 now. That’s awesome.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’re about to erupt. I love it. And…

    Lucas Crigler:

    That’s exciting.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So I have some questions around has… Okay. So I have a couple of questions. So just for clarification, and I will help you with this, which is, I know you don’t speak for the all of trans community and that there are diverging opinions, but you’re involved, so hopefully it’s helpful. So sure. So sex is assigned to you at birth. Okay. Right? Is that right?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Gender is how you express yourself, right?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Kind of. Because there’s expression and then there’s… expression can be different and that’s where it does get super confusing because there can be-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    How would you describe gender?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. How would I describe it? I mean, so I’ve had many, many, many, many talks, kitchen talks with other trans people in everything that we just go round and round because it does get confusing because then there are people out there that say gender’s dead, but then how am I a transgender man? Because I identify as a male.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Which is actually binary, right?

    Lucas Crigler:

    It is binary.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Ironically.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. So I don’t personally think gender is dead. I think that that’s stripping me of my own personal identity.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So I think that there… now, I’m not a doctor. I also want to put that disclaimer out there, but I do think, and I know… well, I will say that having my experience, having estrogen in my body and living that, and then also having testosterone in my body now, there are clear emotional effects of these hormones. So, yes. Right. Okay. So those, to me, can be attributed to sex at birth. Or hormones. Hormones.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right, because that’s a real factual black and white differentiation of you have this hormone or you don’t.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yes, absolutely. So, I mean, I personally have felt more calm. Well, I wouldn’t say calm. I would say more, I guess, level. I feel like testosterone for me has leveled me. I used to have a lot of racing thoughts. I used to overthink things all the time. All the time. Over and over and over.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    This is so good. Can I just… “When I was a woman, I would overthink things.” I love it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    It was a mess! And listen, I will say, and look [crosstalk 00:46:40] [inaudible 00:46:40].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Thank God we have an ally, now we know.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yes. And it’s funny because I pass, and I was talking about this the other day, there are so many times that yes, passing is a privilege, but also when I get into a room of women, it’s not necessarily a privilege because they think I’m a guy. But I just want to be like, “Look, I know. I get it. I totally can commiserate with you. I understand what’s happening physiologically.” Or however you say. Emotionally, because I mean, there are mood swings that go along with estrogen. I felt them. I felt the irrationality of I just like… you got to know, Ashley, right? It’s like-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, I know it. I just think it’s so funny because most men, I talked to men and they’re like, “You women, I can’t can’t follow.” And they’re like, “What is the deal?” We both know each gender in this case. We both know something different is going on with each other. Right? And I’m like, “Why can’t you think about anyone other than yourself?” How is it that no one… I mean, I have two little boys, they’re four, and no one else exists on the planet. Now that’s normal for four year olds, but I see four year old little girls. They’re still thinking about other people. But my little boys, they’re focused on what they need only. And I-

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yep.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And-

    PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:48:04]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    … focused on what they need only so it’s just funny to me. You have the experience now on both sides. You can advocate for us.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yes, I think all the trans people will say that because it’s like we’ve lived it. I mean, I make decisions a lot easier now. Just like this is it. I don’t overthink it. I don’t have to think too much about it and I just go on to the next thing. It is beautiful. I love it. I mean, with that I miss my emotions sometimes. I can tell when I haven’t been on schedule with my shot. I still have my ovaries and my female anatomy when it comes to my internal organs and I plan to get them removed for certain reasons. Some people don’t. With that being said, I can tell if I’m off my shot a few days because I start to tear up at commercials. You know what I mean? Whatever. I’m like whoa, what’s happening? I’m feeling. The deeper feelings, I do miss them. But you’ve got to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right. It’s that way for those of us who are in the right body. You’re like well, I guess this is what comes with it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yep. But when it comes to the other things, I was working out constantly. I was obsessed with it when I was younger and when I was with my first boyfriend. I would drag him to the gym. He would get off super late. We had a 24 hour gym membership. We would be at the gym at like 1:00 AM, it was ridiculous. And I just kept working and working. I could never achieve the body that I was like, this is me. So there are characteristics that… And now testosterone has allowed me to achieve that body. So that again is a male, I think identified trait. But things like the color blue or liking sports, I was saying that earlier, I think that there are traits that you can group them. I don’t think they should be called male and female. I think that’s the problem. I think they’re like Traits A and Traits B.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And Traits A are hyperaggression or being into sports or being into hardcore things like shoveling dirt. I don’t know. I really don’t. Liking trucks, or I don’t know. And then there’s Traits B, which are like liking softer things and being more… Now, they can be related to emotions though I guess. Like I did mention aggression or if there’s more empathy that’s happening or whatever. But personally it’s just an enigma to myself. I just know personally that I feel great in my body. I feel like I’m being seen for the first time, which is the wildest thing. And that’s how you know you’re on track.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Because you’re aligned in all parts of your being?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative). Because your identity unfortunately in this reality that we live in isn’t necessarily a solitary thing. Your identity encapsulates how people see and treat you. So that’s kind of part of it. And now that I’m being treated the way that I feel I am, I’m like “Yeah, this is exactly how it should be.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Stay tuned to hear more in just a moment.

    Speaker 2:

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    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Why is there such an issue around bathrooms? Why do people not want to use the bathroom, just they identity most with?

    Lucas Crigler:

    I think that anything that people are uncomfortable… Okay, so I was raised if you aren’t hurting yourself or someone else you’re fine. I think that if anybody has any issue with somebody else other than themselves doing something that doesn’t hurt somebody else or hurt them, it’s their own internal problem. Something is going on inside of them that makes them uncomfortable about something that’s about them. For me, I look at people that have a problem with me and I’m just like wow, you’ve got some things to work out and I just let it go. I’m like that has nothing to do with me, nothing to do with me. Like me peeing in a bathroom, if you really have that big of an issue with it, wow. I’m peeing. Everybody pees. That’s gross for anybody. And also, you’ve got to think about it this way, there are porta potties at festivals, music festivals, we’re all peeing together in the porta potty. I don’t know maybe those people who have a problem with it don’t use porta potties. I don’t know. I don’t want to group people, again.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But there’s, at least from what my understanding or what I’ve seen is there’s a lot of upset about there being male and female bathrooms only. That there’s not another option. Yeah. And what I always wonder is why not go with the one that you identity most with?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, I will say… Luckily I’ve also had the experience, so I can speak to this, that every trans person who is even passing has had a moment of full transition where I was kind of not identifiable as a male or a female or I was identifiable as both to somebody else’s perspective. So in those moments… I also have worked on a campaign for MasterCard call the True Name Card, which is where it allows you to put your chosen name on your… MasterCard has come out with this whole brand new product that was based on my own experience where I had my name given to me at birth on my credit card and my bank card for forever. It took a very long time for me to change my name. I was just busy at work. You know how long it took you to get me on the podcast. I’m super busy. But in New York, luckily it’s not a safety issue.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So I didn’t feel like a lot of pressure on me to do that. But there were many moments that were very scary in the sense of just being super outed and super embarrassed because I already felt like people were trying to figure me out. Like “Is that a guy? Is that a girl?” But then when they see my card they’re thinking “Oh it’s a girl.” Because it’s got my old name on it. So that’s a shout out to MasterCard for doing that. This isn’t a plug or anything, it’s literally my idea. But with that same experience, while I was treading in that gray area, the bathrooms were a place that caused probably the most anxiety for me. Because it is a binary decision. And yes, I identified as a male, but again, I wasn’t seen as really either.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Because it was making other people uncomfortable.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right, of course. Yeah. It was a social thing. I’d keep my head down. If I had a buddy, I loved to pal around with other cis guys that were like chill. Like if I was at a work event or something they would just be like “Come on Lucas, we’re going in the men’s room.” And I was like cool because I had a buddy with me. It was like buddy system. Nobody would mess with me. But I can see that being a huge… I mean, there was a moment when I was traveling across the country and I was only on testosterone for a couple months. That was when I made the move across the country by myself. I just had my two dogs in tow, from LA to New York. I had to stop and get gas a couple times. In one of these shady gas station bathrooms in Alabama or wherever and I definitely had somebody almost chase me out of one. It was a scary moment.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I had short hair. I thought that I was passing when I got the testosterone inside of me. I look back and I laugh because I’m like wow, funny me to think that I was passing so much. But yeah, I just think that a toilet is a toilet and I think that the more economical solve would just be to kind of have stalls in a room. Everybody should have the option of a stall if they want. I mean, urinals with doors. As opposed to creating a brand new third bathroom. I don’t really think that needs… That’s overkill.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, that’s helpful to understand that in between thing, so thank you.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Sure.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I had a question about, and you kind of spoke to it. Dead naming. So this is not probably accurate. But the way I think about it is I used to be this other person that was a really shitty person when I was using and drinking and not someone that I want to be, not someone that I want other people to identify me as, that kind of thing. And I did look different. But I don’t hesitate, and maybe this is just my experience because some people do, but don’t hesitate to talk about that person or to get into it, reference them, or photos of that person, or whatever. I mean, they’re embarrassing but I laugh about them or whatever. There’s a different feeling around it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And I’m wondering about with dead naming one thing I notice in the trans community is that there’s this aversion to talking about what they looked like, what their names were, even sometimes I’ve seen all the family photos are gone or I’ve seen not referring to which gender they were born. Like they wouldn’t talk about which gender. Whatever it was. And I’m curious about that because especially if you’ve made the transition to who you are today and you’re talking about being trans, I get it if you don’t want anyone to know, but if you are talking about it, why does that color who you are today when people are accepting who you are today and why is that an issue?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. Okay, well first of all I just probably need to say some people in the community happen to have a bit of an issue of the term dead naming. I just wanted to kind of put that out there.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh okay.

    Lucas Crigler:

    It’s okay.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    What’s the right term?

    Lucas Crigler:

    I usually say name assigned at birth or your old name. Now I’m blanking. Because I still say that name, personally.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I learned dead naming from Twitter.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. People use it, but there is a controversy behind it because I just think the idea of dead or death… We have a lot of suicide in our community and killing off that old person is kind of a little dark for people. I think it’s just to say… And also, you don’t want to ever ask “What was your old name?” I get that a lot actually.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Why?

    Lucas Crigler:

    It’s weird because of all the things that I’ve had to talk about, and my girlfriend can attest to this, she’s also trans and she’s very out and proud. Whole nother story. She was outed by the media actually. That’s a long story. And I love her to death and I feel very bad about that experience for her because it’s nobody’s business. But I digress. She has no problem talking about her old name. Oh, there you go. Maybe old name.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Old name, previous.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Previous name or name given to you at birth, name assigned at birth. Anyways. But upon us beginning to first date, upon us dating in the beginning I had a major aversion to her using it. And sometimes she would try to refer to me as my old name and I would not like it. Just even saying “Oh, I don’t think I would have dated so and so had I met them.” Sort of thing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, interesting.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And I didn’t… It gives me the creepy crawlies. Even when I was a kid though I didn’t like the name. I was constantly trying to… My last name is… Should I tell people my last name? It doesn’t matter, right?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Find me. My last name is Crigler so my nickname growing up was based on my last name, it was Crigs. And even in LA I wanted to be called Crigs. I thought it was very kind of neither here nor there and I could always write it off as a nickname, Kate Crigs. The whole idea of being and bringing up your old name is kind of akin to being called something derogatory. It’s hard to explain, but it’s almost like all my life I was called this name. And I love my parents and I’ll tell you how I came up with my new name too and how they were a part of that. It’s beautiful. But I love my parents, I appreciate them giving me the name, and that’s what really hurt my heart. I really wanted to accept and be able to talk about this old name and this old person, but you’re not seen by people for so long as who you are and you’re called this name over and over and over again. It is really almost like a knife in your heart every time you’re called this name because it’s almost like somebody calling you something that’s derogatory or some sort of… And the same with misgendering, being called she/her. It’s almost like somebody just digging that in over and over again.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Like you’ll never fit in. Like you don’t fit in.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. It’s like a bad name.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I see. I see. Yeah. That makes sense.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I can’t explain it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You are. You’re doing a good job explaining it.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Emotionally it’s tough for me and I think it’s just because that’s not at all who I was. And the same thing, like we were talking about. Once that shield was gone, once that shell was removed and I was freed from this… It’s like I was in jail. I could see out. I could see everything that’s going on. It’s almost like a twilight zone where I don’t know. I saw this Twilight Zone once where somebody in Haiti gets blown… I don’t know, it was a Twilight Zone and they blow some powdery mist in their face and they get paralyzed. And it’s almost like their entire body shuts down and their heartbeat and everything is barely detectable. The craziest horror story I’ve ever heard.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But the guy was still alive and he could see through his eyes. But he was paralyzed on the table as the autopsy’s starting to begin. And you can hear his thought. The whole movie is like his thought and he’s like “I’m here. I’m here. I’m alive. I’m alive.” And he’s like “Maybe if I just move my pinky. Oh my God. I can move my pinky. I can move my pinky.” Because the medicine starts to wear off and he’s trying to move his pinky. But he can see everything that’s happening. And ironically, this might tie back in to being trans. It’s really sad, but the thing that gets him out of the position is he starts to think, he just gives up and says “I guess I’m just going to die. I’m going to actually die.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    As they’re getting the saw out to saw his brain open or whatever he starts to think about his kids and he cries and they see a tear coming down his eye and they’re like “This guy’s alive.” That’s the only thing. A tear gets him out of the position. Really really bad analogy, but that’s really what it feels like. It’s like, I’m in here and I can see you but you can’t see me. So once that’s gone it’s like I don’t want to see that shell anymore. It’s weird. It’s just kind of creepy. But I appreciate people remembering me for me. But there are people that have known me through the whole thing and have been like, “This makes sense.” They see me now and they’re like “This makes more sense.” I love that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. So with the surgery piece, following what you were saying, because I was going to ask about why the need for surgery? I obviously know some of the reasons, but especially bottom surgery that’s not outward, why this need? Like removing ovaries, right? Nobody can see that. What’s the different things? So my curiosity or what I think I’m hearing you say is that basically you feel like you’re wearing a costume every day of your life and that you didn’t get to choose, someone put you in this. And people are reacting to that costume. Or you’re wearing a uniform for a job you don’t work at but everybody keeps walking up to you asking you for directions because you’re wearing a customer service sign or something. You’re like “No, I don’t work here.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    I’m wearing a blue polo but I don’t work at Best Buy.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right, exactly. And everybody keeps coming up to you like “Okay, where do I find the electronics?” You’re like “I don’t work here.” We’re like “Yeah, but your shirt says Best Buy and this is your name.” “But that’s not my name.” So there’s a deep desire to have everything in alignment and match. So the surgery gets you to basically now you’re just exactly who you are. Is that kind of… Am I on the path?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, yeah. Definitely. And I think it looks different for everyone and I think that even as cisgendered people, which are people who are born aligned, their bodies match their mind. Until they get a tattoo or until they get their ears pierced and then it’s even more aligned. So for us, being trans, some people, their journey to alignment can go as far or as close as it needs to for them to feel complete. And for me, I didn’t really get into this, but yeah, part of my story also was, along with the drinking excessively, which I thought was also a very masculine trait when I was trying to hang with the guys, throw back the beers.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Chew tobacco?

    Lucas Crigler:

    I tried it. I tried a cigar. Puked it up because I was drinking whiskey. My dad doesn’t drink but he was at some surf and turf men’s club thing that me and my boyfriend at the time ended up at and I was probably like 20 and all these old men were like “You want to try a cigar?” I was like “Sure.” What does it look like for me personally to be masculine? So during those times I wasn’t on hormones so I was trying to overcompensate with a lot of different things. I was trying to date the most feminine women. I bought a pickup truck when I was living in Utah. Yeah, I lived in Utah for a minute. It’s a whole nother podcast. I bought a pickup truck. I have two big dogs, boxer mixes that I’ve raised on my own. The smoking, the drinking, I just thought it was like James Dean. It was super cool and raw and masculine. So what happens now that I’m aligned? For me, a lot of these things, I don’t need them anymore. That’s also quite a bit of the reasons for my recovery, for me being aligned.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I went to meetings the second time around, they’re virtual. I went to a lot of meetings in the beginning of getting sober, but this second time around I’m still going to meetings, but it’s been easier to not. I truly believe it’s because I’m just more like myself. I also remember what it was like to be sober for that year and a half. I really loved it. But how I’m just being able to enjoy the moment, be present, be grateful for the little things, the small moments and not feel like everything is accentuated by alcohol because it’s actually stripping you of being aware of the beauty. You’re missing so much. You’re also missing the horrible DJ at the club that everybody thinks is awesome.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Accurate, accurate.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I’m looking around like this guy is not that good but nobody realizes that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’re also projecting a mask onto other people. Suddenly somebody looks much better than they did when you were sober. So now everybody’s in a mask.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. I’m always like oh my gosh. You know your cue to leave when people start repeating theirselves and they’re very close in your space. You’re like ha ha, “You’ve already told me that story a million times and I’m just going to slip out the door.” And you know what? I’ll tell you something about sobriety, and I’m totally digressing here…

    PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:12:04]

    Lucas Crigler:

    …and you know what, I’ll tell you something about sobriety, and I’m totally digressing here, but somebody told me a while ago, I was scared about the social aspect of it because I was a very socially… Growing up in the south, I was taught, or I was just socially trained, to talk to people. When you have nothing to say, if you’re in the grocery store, you’ve got to say something, you’re an asshole if you don’t.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    So I finally started [crosstalk 01:12:28] I don’t know if it’s me turning 40 this year or what, but also being sober, just being comfortable in these silence… It’s okay to sit in a room with somebody and not have something to say.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 01:12:40] Living in New York city probably helped.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Oh, it does. I love it. I love it for that. Although I really miss the beach in L.A., I really miss the weather, but yeah, it’s really nice to not… you’re weird if you say something to someone, which [crosstalk 01:12:54] nice, but obviously I returned the effort, but yeah, as far as aligning… I’m sorry, I’m totally digressing here. But so I did all these things, I was dating, and then one of them obviously also was dating really beautiful woman. And then there was a moment where I was presenting male, I was passing as male, I was single, and I started realizing I’m not going to deny… Guys are… I’m attracted to guys again, and that’s fine. I date a woman now still, but it was really such an awakening to realize I’m so confident in who I am and happy and I feel fine.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I really am just really realizing that anybody who has an issue with me, and I’ve realized it, it’s full-on… they have an issue with themselves, they’re insecure. I’m confident and, hey, if I think that guy’s hot, I’m going to be like, “Hey, that guy’s hot.” You know what I mean? Because I don’t need… My sexuality doesn’t define my masculinity anymore, I define it myself. I’ve taken ownership of that, so I’m masculine in and of myself, so I don’t have to put on these other means to validate that. I’m validating myself.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That makes total sense. I’ve dated women before, briefly, and I’ve always been like… I mean, as far as I’m… I’ve dated women, but as far as I’m concerned, I’m pretty straight. I don’t know, I’m whatever. Although I always tell my husband, if you die or we divorce, I’m going to marry a woman next time. They’re just way more helpful.

    Lucas Crigler:

    [crosstalk 01:14:41] one of each, maybe.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, good Lord. But I think when you talk about that, I relate in the sense of like, I don’t really worry about it if I’m like, “Oh, that that chick is super hot,” or, “That dude is super hot,” I don’t really worry about it because I’m pretty clear on who I am and what I’m about, and I can see that if you were really confused about that or uncomfortable, those are the things like… I always say to my sponsees, look, if someone walked up to me and was like, “Oh my God, you’re so tall. It’s crazy how tall you are. You’re just like this crazy Amazon tall woman.” Right? I would be very confused because I’m not that tall. But if someone came up to me and was like, “Wow, you are so fat and you are blah, blah, blah,” because I struggle with food issues and I struggle with body image, that would be very painful.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You would take it on, yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And so I would take it on, right? So it’s really… I mean, I’d also think that person was weird, but what we hear and what we react to is all about what’s going on for us, right? Because if it’s something that doesn’t make any sense, then we’ll just be confused, right? If someone’s like, “Oh my gosh, you have the greenest hair in the world,” and you’re like, “What?” [crosstalk 01:16:02] So I’m not affected, I’m not personally injured by things that don’t make any sense to me because I can’t make… I’m like, “That doesn’t make sense,” but when there’s something there, when there’s something soft about that particular thing, that hurts my feelings, [crosstalk 01:16:19].

    Lucas Crigler:

    That’s really interesting, yeah. I hadn’t thought about it that way. Because I will say that if somebody was to say something about my personality, for some reason that would probably affect me more than if… I mean, let’s jump to the case here or jump to the point, the topic, right? The surgery.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I haven’t had bottom surgery and I don’t mind talking about that, personally. That’s just, for me, again, I just think that I’m just so happy where I am. I guess also in contrast to where I’ve been in my body and my transition, I’m very happy with where I am. I find a lot of peace, I’ve found peace in that, but when it comes to if somebody was to be like, “Yo, you don’t have a dick, bro,” I would be like, “I don’t care,” because first of all, personally, I haven’t had any complaints from my lovers, and I’m not trying to be like… But also…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Putting it out there.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. But also, look, if I could wave a magic wand and have it and have it work and have it be great, perfect, as if I was born with it, by all means I would do it in a heartbeat. Why not? But the complication rate… my top surgery doctor told me that the complication rate for men or for people who want a male anatomy is 40%. 40% complication rate. [crosstalk 01:17:50].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Real complications.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The complication rate, and that’s like significant complication, like Houston, we have a problem.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. If I was to have bottom surgery, the surgery would go as, I would have to go down a list of traits and order them in a ranking of what I think is most important, because you cannot have it all. So if I want sensitivity, it might not completely look correct. Or if I want to be able to pee standing up, I might not have as much sensitivity or if I want to be able to penetrate, it’s all of these inherent things going on.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That’s interesting.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But to have it all is very hard to do. And I’m not saying that it’s not possible, they’re still working on it, and that’s the other thing is maybe in 10, 20 years, but of course by then I’ll be 60 and I don’t think I’ll care anymore.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, yeah, whatever.

    Lucas Crigler:

    But for women, it’s quick. It’s one surgery, and I’m not saying there’s not complications there, but for the trans women that I know that have had bottom surgeries…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Male-to-female is easier?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. Oh yeah. For that. Now, the trade-off in that life is… A lot of women, it’s harder to present or pass as a female. It’s very hard if you start that later in life, because it’s easier to scale up than it is a scale down. To take away facial hair, to scale down your jawline, these are just options, obviously, but it’s much harder… I think that trans men have it easier to present and pass if they start later in life. I started transitioning at 35,, but if I started born as a male and started transitioning to female at 35, I think it would look a lot different.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’d just have a lot more surgeries to feminize things?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right. And I could be taller.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    I’m 5’7″, so that is one thing, some trans guys are… I’m 5’7″, which was pretty normal for a female, maybe even a little on the taller… [crosstalk 01:20:13].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s a little tall.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, a little bit tall, maybe an inch or so tall, but I am a small dude. I remember first starting to feel like, I’m like, “Yeah, I’m passing, yeah, I look like a dude, I’m going to go out.” So I went out to a club. [crosstalk 00:01:20:30]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’re like, “Oh, shit, I’m short.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    I was like, “What?” [crosstalk 01:20:31] I had a six-pack, I was ripped, I didn’t even think, because I just had completely forgotten guys are freaking big, and I used to play rugby prior to transitioning and there’s no way I could ever play rugby again. There are some things I had to just shelf. I wouldn’t want play for the women cause I would be much better, I think, personally. Not right now, I haven’t worked out because of my top surgery. I can’t wait to work out again. It’s crazy. It’s like I have to work out. That’s the other thing, testosterone, at least for me personally, working out was a totally different… it was a necessity as opposed to… That and the sex drive in the beginning was just insane. I would be working on my computer and it would just be like, in the middle of the day, it just comes out of the blue, you’re horny. It’s like, “What is this?”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That’s helpful for the rest of us to understand what’s happening with these people who are masturbating at work.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. It’s true. It was like, “I get it.” I get why guys have to do this now. It’s really, really interesting, it’s been such a journey. Such a strange journey.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    If there’s any people out there who are listening who are struggling with their identity in some way, shape, or form, whatever that looks like, and they’re in the beginning of this journey, what would be a piece of advice that you wish you had had at the beginning of this journey that you could pass on to them?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, 100%. So I would say, well, there’s two. Depends on what you’re looking for here. First, I’ll start with this story. So I had a lot of kids reach out to me on Instagram that were always asking me, “Should I transition? Should I take testosterone?” And that’s not for me to decide, and I would have to explain that to them, but, “How do I know that I’m trans?” is a question I get.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Okay. That’s a good one. What’s your answer?

    Lucas Crigler:

    So the way that I would go about answering this is I would say, “I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you what I did,” and I took a full-on year out in LA to just live the life. I surrounded myself by community, a supportive community, but then the whole time I was thinking about transitioning, I kept putting myself mentally on a deserted island and I would ask myself over and over again, “If there was a vial of testosterone there with a syringe, would I inject it? Would I take testosterone, with no one else around, no one to live for?” And mentally, I would go there over and over again, and every single time it was, “Yes.” Every single time. And that was how I knew. I just knew at that point that I was living for someone other than myself if I wasn’t going to transition with [inaudible 01:23:41].

    Lucas Crigler:

    So it was just something that I took into consideration over and over again and it made it so easy. I just knew immediately. I don’t even want to say I went there over and over again, I was just doing it for the year. It’s the same as changing my name. I was just always so accepted by my parents and my friends and I was so lucky that I never felt that… When I came out as trans, I was like, “I’m trans.” And I didn’t tell my parents for a year. I was all the way out in LA, and I was just kind of like, again, it was just this complete phase-in to it all. And that was how I knew, it was just super chill. It wasn’t like, I woke up and I was, boom, I had to be on… And like I said before, it’s a safety issue for a lot of people. So they have to do it, they wake up and they’re like, “I’ve got to do this, I have to…” [crosstalk 01:24:33]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Because people in their community are going to… Violence around the country, is that what you’re referring to?

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, violence, discrimination, and the faster you get to that end point… And that’s the other thing when it comes to bottom surgery, some people need that, they need that to completely align, to be complete on a number of different levels. Like we were discussing earlier, identity doesn’t just end with internal identity. Sometimes it encompasses how other people view you, and it sucks, but it’s true.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Being seen.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You take a lot of that on. Being seen, yeah and… There are people that identify as male or female, but aren’t necessarily seen, and I know that’s hard for some people to wrap their heads around, but like I said, when I was coming out and that year that I wasn’t on testosterone, I thought I was a guy. All my friends were calling me he/him and “Craig”, and I didn’t have a name.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And that was horrible because I was like, “Oh, I don’t want to make anybody uncomfortable,” but I had a good friend of mine just tell me, there was this trans friend of mine who guided me in a couple of different things, it was before I was passing as male, they were like, “Yo, who cares?” I was worried about walking through the security at an airport, and they were just like, “Just go through, who cares?” And I was like, “How could you do that?” I mean, wow. At the end of the day, they twisted it into, “It’s their problem.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    You’ve got to think, they’re projecting onto you. You need to be the strong person and be like, “Yeah, I am here with conviction, I am who I am, and if you have a problem with that, that’s your problem,” and it’s so powerful to be able to get into that mind frame. And they talk about that in alcoholism, too. It’s like, if anybody has a problem with you not drinking at a bar, or, “Hey, do you want a drink, do you want a drink? Oh, no,” something’s going on with them, they probably don’t want to drink. [crosstalk 01:26:55]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Or they don’t want to drink alone.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right, yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They know they’re going to drink anyway, or, yeah. It’s awkward for them. It’s interesting, one of the things I was thinking about when you were talking was that… when you were talking about the airport and what have you. From my perspective, as someone who is like, everyone should be who they want to be, if you’re not hurting anyone else, go for it. Who am I to say, right? And one thing I will say, though, is I do get curious. When I see someone I’m like, “Are you… Is that…” And I think I could see how someone might be thinking that I’m judging them, but no, I just am like, “Wait,” my eye catches something. And I do want to say that I try to not be obvious about those things, but there is a level of curiosity that is not meant to harm. I’m sure it’s not helpful, you can tell people are like, “I can’t tell if you’re a boy or a girl,” but yeah, genuine… [crosstalk 01:28:06].

    Lucas Crigler:

    How do you want to be seen is the question that I think that… Again, it gets back to intent, is it malicious or is it truly like, “I’m just trying to see you the way that you want to be seen”?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Right? So how do you ask that, I guess, and, I used to work with companies to help guide them a little bit with just how to address customers, for instance. And I think, personally, one of the ways that we talk is if you introduce yourself to create an inclusive space and say, “I’m Ashley, she/her,” you know what I mean? And if you say, “She/her,” to this person who’s probably exploring their own identity, it creates a safe space for them to then offer their pronouns and then you’re on your way, as opposed to just saying, “What are your pronouns?” I used to just say, “What are your pronouns?” because I also was obviously struggling with my… or not struggling, but searching for my identity, so I would go to these events in L.A. and… nobody ever was like, “I can’t believe you asked me my pronouns.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    I think it’s better to ask, if you have to ask as opposed to offering your pronouns, I don’t think that that should be seen as unacceptable. And, hey, if they take offense to that, then you tried, and you’re maybe just talking to the wrong person, but [crosstalk 01:29:35] offending somebody who’s non-binary or trans. If you offer your pronouns, that’s great. I also… if you’re just casually talking about somebody to another person who is CIS and you’re trying to refer to somebody, usually a lot of us in the trans community, we just defer to them/they. If you don’t really know, I don’t think that’s an insult either, but it’s more of a faux pas to assume that you know.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative). I just either stay with their first name, whatever they go by.

    Lucas Crigler:

    First name, yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    For me, that’s what I do. I just keep it to the first name. I’m like, “I know I’m safe there.”

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah, definitely.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well, you are an incredible man and person in recovery and I’m so excited and grateful that you took the time to come on here today, and I hope that lots of people hear this and are inspired by all the different aspects of your story. Because you have recovered your identity, right? So it’s not just recovery from alcohol and drugs, you’re recovering your identity, and I think that’s just incredible and a real victory.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, thank you very much for having me. And I just want to say, we didn’t get too far… that’s a whole nother podcast at some point, but I know that I’ve actually been looked down upon at some points for my Instagram being filled with all this happiness and glee and making it look like it’s easy, but I’ve had my low points too, and I had a really, really low point when I was living in Utah and I almost gave up and a year later I hit the highest point in my career and I was in a completely different place. I was in L.A., I had everything going for me. And if I had followed through with some of that, letting the negative thoughts infiltrate and lead me, I wouldn’t be where I am today.

    Lucas Crigler:

    And it’s not… Just because I definitely come from a place of privilege, especially now presenting, which would be a whole nother podcast again. But not only am I presenting as a male now, which has gender privileges, I’ve always also been white. And so that’s a big thing where it’s 100% privileged city, which it’s sad and that needs to change. And especially our black and brown trans women who are some of the most at-risk in our community and in the world, really, for violence. And I just want to shout out to them and anybody else who’s struggling to just surround yourself, even if it’s one person in your hometown that gets you, that’s your friend. Surround yourself with that person, cling to those people that see you for who you are and try to…

    Lucas Crigler:

    And the more… there’s power in numbers, even if it’s one person, then you’ll check another, then you’ll check another. And eventually, I think that you’ll be able to get out of the situation that you’re in. There’s always hope and, like I said, it was a mere year or even a less than a year later that I was in a better place and just keep one foot in front of the other and it’s worth it, you’re worth it, and we see you.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, I love that. I love that. The other thing I wanted to say, just for resources, if you go to lionrock.life, we have their meetings called community meetings, and there’s one specific to the LGBTQIA+ group, which is Tuesdays and Thursdays. You don’t have to be sober, people are in all different types of recovery, and that is specific to a group of people who are recovering in some way, shape, or form and getting together and doing work together and seeing each other. So if that is something that people are looking for, that is a place to connect and share and recover. I highly encourage that.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Yeah. I love it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lucas. Much appreciated.

    Lucas Crigler:

    Well, thank you, Ashley. It’s been a joy and a pleasure and I love it all the way around and the community that you’ve built. So thank you for letting me be a part of it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, it’s awesome.

    Speaker 3:

    This podcast is sponsored by lionrock.life. Lionrock.life is a recovery community offering free online support group meetings, useful recovery information, and entertainment. Visit www.lionrock.life to view the meetings schedule and find additional resources. Find the joy in recovery at lionrock.life.

    Ashley Jo Brewer

    Ashley Avatar

    Ashley Jo is one of the producers of The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast team. With over a decade of experience working with C-level executives and directing corporate training events, she brings extensive production experience to Lionrock. In early 2020, she made a significant career change and stepped into the realm of podcasting.

    Her recovery experience includes substance abuse, codependency, grief and loss, and sexual assault and trauma. Ashley Jo enjoys supporting others in recovery by connecting with people and being a leader. She shared her story in Season 3, Episode 92 of The Courage to Change.