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Apr 6
  • Written By Ashley Jo Brewer

    • #91 – The Loeb Sisters

    #91 - The Loeb Sisters

    The Loeb Sisters

    In this special episode, Ashley Loeb Blassingame sits down with her sisters Victoria (Tory) and Marina to discuss what it was like growing up with a sibling struggling with substance use disorder. 

    This is a ‘no holds barred’ episode where Marina and Tory tell-all and share intimate details about growing up with Ashley. They discuss participating in family therapy sessions, watching Ashley overcome her addiction, and seeing  her discover what she was meant to do in life by helping others in recovery.  

    Join us in this heartfelt episode where we take a look at addiction from a different vantage point and share a story that beautifully captures the healing and restoration brought to relationships by recovery. 

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    Episode Transcript

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Hello beautiful people. Welcome to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast. My name is Ashley Loeb Blassingame, and I am your host. If you are here for the first time, welcome. If you are returning, welcome. So excited to have you. Today I will be talking to none other than my two younger sisters. We are the three Loeb sisters, Marina and Victoria Loeb will be joining me. And I am so excited to give you this episode. It’s been a long time coming and felt like it was a good time to release it. We had a lot of fun doing it and a lot of fun reminiscing on what it was like to grow up in our household.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    We spent some time … I tried to make the episode not a hundred percent around what they thought, what do you think of me? Now, what do you think of me? And try really to talk about their experience. Of course, it related to living with me, so that did come up. But I really worked on trying to make this interview interesting from the perspective of what it’s like to be the sibling in a home where there is an alcoholic child, a drug addicted child. And to give perspective on that. And especially since I did an interview with my father, Peter, and you guys got to hear about that and what that was like. I think that this episode gives you some insight into what it’s like from more of a peer perspective. Marina and Victoria are, I know that I’m truly biased, but they are two of the most amazing women that I know. And I have these lifelong built-in best friends and I feel my siblings, my sisters are truly one of the greatest joys of my life.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And I cannot overemphasize how grateful I am at and how much being a Loeb sister means to me, it really does. It’s one of the things that brings me the greatest joy in my life, being a sister and being a sister of three and what I get out of that. I hope that that comes through in our episode and that you get a little peek into what it was like growing up in our house. And maybe something that they say will be supportive or helpful in your journey. And at the very least, I hope it makes you laugh. So without further ado, I give you my favorite people on the planet, Marina and Victoria Loeb. Episode 91, let’s do this.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You are listening to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast. We’re a community of recovering people who have overcome the odds and found the courage to change. Each week we share stories of recovery from substance abuse, eating disorders, grief and loss, childhood trauma, and other life-changing experiences. Come join us no matter where you are on your recovery journey.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. So we’re starting season three with a new tradition. So I want to welcome you to season three. And we’re going to start with a new tradition where we look at a picture from our childhoods, a bad haircut, or … it kind of depends, but I really want a bad childhood haircut. That’s the optimum thing, but what we can deviate a little bit. And so you guys, did you send me your photo? I’m trying to find … Where’s the photo? Because the photo will be posted on our Instagram for every episode. And so that when people are listening to us talk about it and describe it, they can go to our Instagram and see the actual photo.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So for you guys, Tory, do you want to go first?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yes. So I included a photo of myself. I think I must be, I got to be maybe two in the photo. And in classic, I’m going to say third child fashion or youngest child, I think mom just got really … was like, I won’t have to brush her hair so much. I’m not taking her to get her haircut. So she gave me a bowl cut, but it’s truly like, people are like, Oh yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s like a little boy’s haircut, which makes for very funny interactions. A photo has been posted on Facebook and people have asked if that was their little brother. [crosstalk 00:05:02] little brother.

    Victoria Loeb:

    It’s actually, fun fact, my fiance’s contact photo of me. Every person who he shares my contact with gets that photo. Yep, yep, yep. Yep.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It is awful. You were the cutest little kid. You were gender neutral before you knew what that was.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Exactly. Yeah, no, I definitely was. I can appreciate that. I feel like mom was progressive with how she dressed me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. That’s good. Oh, you were so cute.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Your little brother.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    My little brother’s so cute. I was wearing jewelry.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Look at you fashion.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I know.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. It was a very cool nineties. I’m in a jumpsuit romper situation.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Can we just talk about-

    Victoria Loeb:

    That’s very loudly colored. Marina looked devious as all hell of course.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. They make me look like the … The hair and the clothes are very designer-y, not like designer fashion, but the … because it looks a little bit exacting. That’s why I say designer instead of artists. The color and the lines and things match, you know?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. Mom dressed me in very matching.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    This was actually dad’s doing it because mom was out of town and dad dressed us, and mom was pissed because the three outfits clashed. So that’s how I remember that it was dad who actually put us in that. Because my mom was like, “Why would you put them in outfits that clash?”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. You’re in a multicolor … I’m in a jumpsuit and Marina’s in stripes.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Tory is looking like Banksy in this thing.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, seriously. [crosstalk 00:06:53].

    Marina Loeb:

    … a different one though.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    What’s yours?

    Marina Loeb:

    It’s the one of us at baggage claim. Remember? You’re smiling and you’re wearing that colorful fleece. I too am wearing a colorful fleece, but I look like a freaky ostrich, you know?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The ponytail one?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. The various … yeah. The pigtails, but, but not cute. Nothing about it’s cute. It’s hilarious. You look cute, but it looks like I’m imitating you and it’s not working.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I need to see this photo.

    Marina Loeb:

    I don’t even know if I want to release it. It’s like so [crosstalk 00:07:28].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You can’t talk about it and not release it. Those are the rules of Jumanji.

    Marina Loeb:

    Okay, fine. Okay. Fine. As a Jumanji lifer. You know?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. You have to, it’s totally part of it.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. It’s so good that in my computer it’s labeled yes. That’s it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. I guess you’ll have to send it to us after. I’m very excited about this photo. Especially with pigtails looking awkward. Because I feel like when pigtails look awkward, it’s just bad. So you can have some things look awkward and it’s not good. But when pigtails don’t look good, they look really bad. Oh, you did the side pony too. You used to do just one. You used to take an entire bottle of hairspray and literally mat down. And they called you helmet head because it was literally hard.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think mom coined that. Because I remember she did that to me for a little bit where she’d do the half ponytail and it was like your head was shiny. Get rid of flyaways, but it really was taken to a new level with you.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. No. I would go in there and do it to myself. So I would part it and then spray until I could spray no more. I don’t know what-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The aquanet.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. The Aquanet.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Aquanet, Yep.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. It was-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Basically asbestos.

    Marina Loeb:

    I don’t remember what I thought, but I remember having no negative ideas about it at all. That’s what I remember.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God. Wait, sorry. One haircut related funny story. Do you guys remember when I was in the movie theater and I was chewing a piece of gum and it fell out of my mouth and fell into my sideburn and so you had to cut my sideburn? You guys never let me forget it. It was your way to just be like, I had just this one short sideburn.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    What are we there for if not to tease you until you’re scarred for life?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Remember pee green?

    Marina Loeb:

    You could see the scar too. And that’s what made it so much more appealing.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Ashley was very babying and you were-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You were like my baby.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 00:09:46] stronger. Maybe it toughened me up a little bit.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I definitely didn’t get to tease you much.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. It’s true. It’s true. We were like fast friends and then …

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I saved all the teasing for later.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh God. Yeah, Marina. I’d have to be straight face situation. If it was something, I don’t care. I don’t care. So then it was less joyful for her to tease me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. But I got Marina pretty good. I had Marina, I have some haircut pictures of her. I told Marina she was going to be a model, that a magazine had called.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yes.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I told Marina that a magazine had called me and that they wanted her to be a model. And that I was there to take the photos. So I dressed her up and made her take these photos. And she wasn’t wearing anything ridiculous, but just the whole idea was so funny to me. And I was like, okay, now put your arm here and pose like a model. And she was doing it. And I was like, okay, this is going to go really well in the magazine.

    Marina Loeb:

    I probably was so excited.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You probably were. Yeah. And you looked adorable and hilarious all the same time. And mom developed those photos, remember mystic? Where we would send out the photos. Mom developed the photos, they came back and it’s like, I took a full photo shoot of you posing as an eight year old. Hilarious. It was so funny.

    Marina Loeb:

    I’ve done that to Tory actually.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, and I was in the bath.

    Marina Loeb:

    [crosstalk 00:11:28] a kid thing?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, you learned from Ashley and then you passed it down. Because I remember I was in the bath and you approached me and you’re like, I’m going to do your makeup. And I was in the bath. So I was like [inaudible 00:11:36] audience, no mirror, nothing. And you just like, I don’t know how I didn’t realize it, but literally it was like, my entire face was covered in red lipstick.

    Marina Loeb:

    I remember doing that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, Marina didn’t look abnormal. It was just hilarious.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well I want to start with, we just kicked this off at 4:20. So that is very ceremonious, and yes thank you, Marina and Victoria Loeb, for coming on my podcast.

    Marina Loeb:

    Can I do your intro?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    I think I know it from memory.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Wait, you got to introduce yourself. Who are you? So people start to know your voice.

    Marina Loeb:

    I’m Marina Loeb Blassingame.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I should tell Jack that.

    Marina Loeb:

    [crosstalk 00:12:24] hello beautiful people. Welcome to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes, thank you. So let’s get this shit show on the road, since Tory’s already started with her technical difficulties.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I’m at 7%, just so you all know.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. Victoria has a computer that she has to wait until it dies for it to catch a charge. So she had to wait for it to die. We had to hold on and wait for it to die. And then she could charge it. Because if you charge it before that, it would still go down in charge. So basically it’s a good thing you work in tech in Silicon Valley is all I’m saying. It’s really good. Okay.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So why don’t you guys give a little bit of background about yourselves. Marina, we’ll start since we’ll just go in birth order, tell us a little bit about what you do for a living, what your birth order is, and your hobbies.

    Marina Loeb:

    Sure. So I’m Marina. I have the lowest voice of all the sisters. I’m an illustrator and designer. I work on a lot of different projects and a lot of them are marketing and branding based. And for hobbies, well, I love to draw, but I also like to run, but I don’t know if that’s a hobby as much as a necessity. And I tend to a ton of plants, got a little bit of a plant addiction, my house looks like Jumanji.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It does. And the cat doesn’t help.

    Marina Loeb:

    No, no. We have so many plans that the ones that he destroys, we can’t really tell. So yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Awesome. And you’re in South San Francisco.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And how old are you? How old are you?

    Marina Loeb:

    I’m 31.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Thank you. Tory and I really didn’t know.

    Marina Loeb:

    That’s why we’re doing this before my birthday.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Yeah. We’re trying to figure it out. Okay, good. Now we have it recorded. [crosstalk 00:14:33]

    Marina Loeb:

    You guys were …

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Tory was telling the wrong ages to my children, including mine.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And mine.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Yeah. It was-

    Marina Loeb:

    How old did they think you were?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think I was telling them that I was turning 39. It was very early in the morning. They ambushed me.

    Marina Loeb:

    You told them open your wrong age.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I didn’t realize it until I listened to the video afterwards.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You’re not even 30.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I know. I was saying I was turning 29, but I said 30. Yeah, anyway.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. Victoria, will you-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yes. I am Victoria. I’m the third girl and youngest, the best. I live in Presidio in San Francisco and I work in tech. Should I say where?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Okay. I work in tech, in sales. And in my free time, I like to spend as much time outside as possible since I’m inside for most of the day. So right outside my door I have lots of hiking trails, which is awesome. And I have a very active puppy. So I am taking him out frequently. Also really enjoy reading and occasionally, occasionally cooking. Cooking for fun, not cooking for utility.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Awesome. Okay, good. Thank you. Thank you. We got that done. Okay. So I wanted to bring you guys on here. We had our dad Peter on the podcast and we did a conversation talking about what it was like to have the privilege of raising me as a child and talking about addiction from the perspective of the parent. And you guys are my best friends. And so we’ve been through the ringer together and you guys have had a lot of life experience as a result of just the home that we grew up in. And we talk on this podcast a lot about the experience of the people who got well. And I think it’s important to talk about the experience of the people around the person who was a complete shit show. Because I know that that’s affected your lives. So I wanted to … Did you guys hear the episode with me and dad?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative)

    Marina Loeb:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Tory’s lying.

    Victoria Loeb:

    No, no, no, no. I’m not. I think it was a while ago, right? It was in season one, wasn’t it?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Okay. Yeah. My memory is not great. I’ll be honest.

    Marina Loeb:

    I listened to it twice, but I can remember bits and pieces.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I remember … yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, Tory. Did you listen to it twice?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Okay, definitely didn’t listen to it twice.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, sorry, Tory. I didn’t me to like …

    Victoria Loeb:

    One-upping me.

    Marina Loeb:

    I know. I’m sorry. That was an accident. I’m like, well, I listened to it twice.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I’m sure I can recite it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, that’s actually probably true. Dad, he’s great. He drills his lessons into your head so that you can, at any given time, recite what he would say in that moment and how he would tell the story.

    Marina Loeb:

    It’s very true. I often am like, Oh, cue … I feel like I’m watching a filing cabinet of his stories. I’ll be in meetings with him and I’ll be like cue story from 1995 episode 31. And he never disappoints. He pulls it right out. He says it exactly. I’m like, yep, that’s about right.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I also thought about it this weekend when I was telling your kids about an ancient proverb, I was like, oh no, I’m going to be like him.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. We were trying to tell my children that they should pump their legs on the swings so that we don’t push them on the swing, and Tory-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Teach a boy to fish, then he’ll eat for life.

    Marina Loeb:

    Then he’ll be on the swings by himself for life.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Let me just tell you it was a real … it really was a real winner. I think it just hit home for them. Okay. So let’s talk a little bit about, so you guys heard the episode with dad, and let’s talk a little bit about how addiction has affected your lives.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Your addiction?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Addiction in general or whatever. However you want to interpret the question.

    Marina Loeb:

    There’s so many answers to that. Mostly good ones actually, because your experience came with learning a lot of things outside of addiction, like communication. When we would visit you in the rehabs, they would … [crosstalk 00:19:43].

    Victoria Loeb:

    All those rehabs.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Those rehabs.

    Marina Loeb:

    No, every time you made it back in. Sorry.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’m just thinking of the one time where you guys came and my hair had been falling out and you guys … the first inpatient. Yeah. And I was trying to look good and put my hair in pigtails. And you guys were like, dude, your hair is falling out. You can’t wear pigtails, it’s not working.

    Speaker 1:

    [crosstalk 00:20:24]

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was thinking of how when you were on Talking Band and Boy Band, and it was just like, what’s happening here?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I wasn’t allowed to talk to … Well, I feel like Talking Band and Boy Band was redundant, but yes, I was on Talking … Yeah. I would get in trouble for getting loaded in treatment. And I had a Talking Band shirt on and a Boy Band shirt on. Yeah. You weren’t speaking to me at that point.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, bummer. Because that sounds funny.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I go there. I’m like what, 11? And I’m like, this is some … What is this universe that I’ve traveled in too?

    Marina Loeb:

    Seriously.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s a straight up alternate universe.

    Marina Loeb:

    You got Catholic school and steroids all in one.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Catholic school on weird steroids. Okay. So, okay. I’ll direct my question more specifically. Okay. Marina, what is it like to grow up with a sibling who has an addiction problem? How did that affect your childhood?

    Marina Loeb:

    I think that it created a world, an ecosystem that did not reflect regular life. And I know that’s sort of vague, but the way parents react to things, the organization of what’s allowed, what’s not. Just the vibe in the house, the things you’re exposed to, when you don’t know any differently. Growing up in that space, I think that what really stands out is when that’s no longer there and you go out into the world.

    Marina Loeb:

    And I knew that not everyone had a sister who did XYZ things. And I knew that my life didn’t look like other people’s lives, but I felt like I went out and people were shocked about things that I didn’t know to be shocked about. And I couldn’t predict what things were talking and people also, it’s really funny too, when older kids in high school want to corrupt you when you’re a freshman. But they’re trying to make friends with you, but they’re also doing that by letting you in on the bad things they’re doing. And you’re like, I remember just being like, what? That? That’s nothing. Come on, give me some real to do. Give me something that I can be interested in.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. So when you say you … What were some of the things going on in the house that you did not know were not normal in your growing up?

    Marina Loeb:

    Well, the amount of outrageous fighting and anger, just straight up screaming constantly. I think that that really-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Between me and dad and mom?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. And just all the time. And it’s sort of normalized for me. So for example, if someone raises their voice, I think like, Oh, shit, they’re upset. Or something like that. I understand it as a signal, but I don’t shut down or I don’t fall into a mode or whatever. People get really freaked out. And so that really stood out. Also just the types of drugs that were around are considered beyond hardcore to other people, they don’t even know how to access it. I remember people were talking about taking their mom’s Ativan and thinking that they were just so bad. It’s just like … It was just sort of like-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    In our situation, I think, to give people some background, which was that Marina and I used together, we’re two years apart. And we were really close young and partied hard together. And when I say partied hard, you and I did meth together when you were in middle school, which was an interesting experience.

    Marina Loeb:

    I remember being like, well, I’m going to die. And then being like, well, this is the best thing ever.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God. I remember being like, Oh, shit, what have I done? Yeah. I think I brought you along on a lot of the … We did the same amount of stuff together for a long time, roughly, roughly, and then I hit a level where I went above and beyond that. And then that’s kind of where our paths diverged. But I think that you were very … I felt like I was protecting you because you were doing the drugs with me instead of other people, which, in retrospect, is a lot of the addict thinking that I like to talk about. But yes. But yeah, there was a lot of chaos and a lot of hard drugs that you probably wouldn’t have been exposed to at that age had that not been around.

    Marina Loeb:

    That’s true. I would say that, I don’t know, in a sense you were protecting me, but I think it could only be called that if I were to discover it on my own. I don’t think that there were any … there was no way that I would have been introduced to it otherwise, but it just accelerated what was already going to happen. Maybe I wouldn’t have come across meth, but at some point you’re going to come across people who have some things and maybe their friends and whatever and you’re going to do those things. And it just sort of … I just skipped a bunch of grades.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s interesting. When I’m thinking about it, I’m thinking, we’re talking about the drugs, but we did lots of stuff around alcohol and we threw, I don’t even remember how old we were, but we threw these black light parties.

    Marina Loeb:

    When you convinced the nanny to take us to get a fog machine and black lights at the party story.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I don’t remember that part, but yes.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I don’t know how you did it. That was wild to me. I was so sure she was straight-laced and whatever, and you had a conversation with her and she returned and was like, all right, let’s go. I was like, what? What amount did you just bribe her into turning to the dark side? That was so crazy.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God. Yeah. So we would have these parties at our house with a fog machine and a black light, and we would invite people over and they could only wear two articles of white clothing and have these drinking … Tory, were you there for those?

    Victoria Loeb:

    So I think I would come in and hang out and be like, I’ll just sit in the corner. Don’t mind me. When you were having those parties.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And that’s how she turned into a voyeur.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think I was five years younger than Ashley, three years younger than Marina. And so by the end of your, well, it wasn’t really the end of your ride, but the beginning of the end of your ride, I think you were 16. So I was 11. So I was pretty young when you were in high school.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Yeah. But how much of it were you exposed to? What was your perspective of what was going on in your home?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. For me, it’s interesting as an adult to look back because I had such a childlike view of everything that was going on. It was such a naive view. I didn’t really understand that. I knew that when mom and dad would get mad that you were doing things you weren’t supposed to do, but I didn’t know that it was odd.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I remember people in the class would be … parents would be like, you can’t go over to the Loeb house, of my friends, and I didn’t really understand what the concern was. For me, I think I definitely idolized you as my sister, but I had zero interest in drugs and alcohol. And then I didn’t even really understand what you were doing. And to me, you just had a ton of friends and were super popular and you would make these photos-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That’s also true.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You’d make these really ornate photo books. And I would come into your room and just sit on the floor and try to be like a fly on the wall and look at the photo books. And then when mom and dad were to get mad, I would get really protective and be like, why are you getting mad at my sister? [crosstalk 00:29:24]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’m like, yeah, listen to her.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was just so, la, la. And so I don’t think it was until later, until you went to rehab because that was when I was 11 and was just hitting puberty and then it was interesting going through high school and being exposed to … I didn’t do anything besides drink and smoke weed until after high school, because I was so just like … That’s something that I just don’t do. I definitely had a lot of fear around drugs and alcohol, or drugs, not really alcohol. And so that was like a line in the sand for me, but I didn’t really … it was more just, I think I was much more present for you going through rehab than you using. Because I was also, as Marina was not talking to you, I was going along as like a 12 year old going to rehab family weekends. And just, I remember just seeing people stand up and confront each other and just being like, whoa, this is wild. Oh my God.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh God. Yeah. I think I was definitely exposed to a lot of therapeutic environments, which I think was really positive of just cementing a foundation of values and accountability and introspection. And so I think that has been really positive in my life. I do think in some ways that whole experience definitely forced me to grow up faster than other people, specifically the rehab piece.

    PART 1 OF 5 ENDS [00:31:04]

    Victoria Loeb:

    You grow up faster than other people. Specifically the rehab piece. Because again, I wasn’t really aware of what was going on. But I think it definitely accelerated my awareness of what being an adult… And risk and different things and that perception of the world.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    There were some experiences where you particularly… Marina and I had a much more complicated relationship because we were doing this stuff together. And we’re closer in age, but it was just a much more complicated relationship. And you were young enough where there was some distance there, but there was a time where I went missing and they were looking and they put out a APB and checked the border and all this shit. And I-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Wait which? I feel like there were a couple different times of that. [crosstalk 00:31:59].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The time…

    Victoria Loeb:

    Are you talking about the [inaudible 00:32:04] time?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No. The time where…

    Victoria Loeb:

    I know what this is. With [Rita 00:32:16]?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, I don’t know. No, I don’t… I mean, now this is getting really good.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 00:32:23].

    Victoria Loeb:

    You’ve got to be more specific about which time you went missing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay, perfect. So the time I went missing where no one knew where I was… I guess that’s kind of part of it. But I called the house and I called you, Tory, and told you that I was okay. I called you from a payphone and then told you not to tell anybody. And one of the things I’ve heard in people sharing about their experiences with their siblings, growing up with someone who’s an addict is secret-keeping for them, right? I would get Tory to pee in bottles. I was terrible at getting drug tests. But that’s neither here nor there. I still tried. And having money [inaudible 00:33:06]. I stole your money?

    Victoria Loeb:

    No, you asked me to steal money from Mom and Dad.

    Marina Loeb:

    Same.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Perfect.

    Marina Loeb:

    So scary.

    Victoria Loeb:

    But I think I was like, “I’m doing [crosstalk 00:33:16] sister.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    God’s work.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, I’m doing God’s work. My loyalty ran so deep. I was just-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I prayed for you, too.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Mom and Dad were the enemy. But I also didn’t really understand. I don’t even remember you calling me to tell me that. I mean, because again, this is all like sub 11.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You wrote a thing for school about it.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh yeah. Well, that was in seventh grade-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s a different time I went missing?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Well, no, that was based on… It was a fictional story based on this fact- [crosstalk 00:33:49]

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, those.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, wait. What?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I can’t remember. I’ll have to pull it up somewhere.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The vase.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yes, yes. That was definitely scary because it was also… I remember it was at a concert and it’s like, “Oh, Ashley’s gone,” or something. It was definitely disruptive where there was a little bit of, “God, I was enjoying my concert!”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Where I got kidnapped by two dudes accidentally?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, two dudes, I know. And I was like, “I have never seen Avril Lavigne. I’m trying to live my skater girl life.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Skater girl for your skater boy? Why Peter took me… If you would listen, Tory, to the podcast with Dad you’d know.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I did.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That I discovered how I got to that concert. I had no idea ever until that moment, how I had gotten to the Avril Lavigne concert. And whenever I would tell my story, I would literally say, “I ended up at an Avril Lavigne concert, no recollection of how this happened.” And Dad’s like, “Yeah, I took you with Tory.” And I was like-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, I remember that. We had an extra ticket and you got the extra ticket.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, and literally I never knew. I was like, “It’s just the strangest thing. I was in downtown San Jose and somehow I ended up…”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Literally, the story in my head… I never knew that’s how that happened. And so can you imagine this story in my head is suddenly I’m at an Avril Lavigne concert. That’s literally it.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my god.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So for all of these years, that’s what I thought. And I was like- [crosstalk 00:35:23].

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, that was kind of a [crosstalk 00:35:24].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That makes a lot more sense.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. That was less fun, but I remember… I guess a good example of this childlike mentality is… I remember the story well, we referenced it, but Mom and Dad asked you to drop me off at school, and I’m in elementary school, wearing my little Catholic school uniform. And Ashley was like, “Nope, I’m taking you out of school today.” And then we go to your high school, which is like not a real high school. And you’re like on your flip phone- [crosstalk 00:35:53].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Excuse me. It was an absolutely so fun high school. It was a continuation school.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And I remember first of all. So we first of all go to Taco Bell for breakfast, which I was like, “Yes, oh my god, yes. This is delicious. This is amazing.” And then we go to your high school, and you’re taking smoke breaks, on your phone, and you give me this Sex And The City book to read. Mind you, I’m probably 10 or maybe nine-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Could you read?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I could read.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You could read books?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. I was in, I don’t know, fourth grade or something.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It was called Four Blondes.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I remember that. Yeah, and then you took me around and they had animals and stuff. And I was like, “This is awesome.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Also, I love that no one at school questioned it.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. You probably signed into Mom’s email and you were like, “She’s sick.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, I don’t think I thought that far ahead, but yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God. Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, so wait. Was that a good experience?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. That was like, “Oh my god, this is amazing.” I was easily satisfied.

    Marina Loeb:

    There were a lot of things like that, that were… That’s kind of the interesting other side is there were a lot of hilarious, random moments because you were very enterprising.

    Marina Loeb:

    There were things where you were like, “We’re going to do this.” And it’s like, “Wait, are we allowed?” You’re like, “Well, we’re going to do it.” And I’m like, “Okay.” Like stealing cars? That was-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God.

    Marina Loeb:

    Not other people’s cars, just Mom and Dad’s cars. But my god, even rentals. I mean, you really believed. You were on a mission and you made it happen.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I look back at my brazenness and am fucking terrified because I have children. And also just what? I don’t know who that person is, but it’s… I mean, I don’t know where that… I think I just had no… I think that’s just part of being a teenager. You’re six feet tall, bulletproof, you’re going to do whatever you want, although I’m told that not every 15-year-old-

    Marina Loeb:

    No, I wasn’t like that at all. That was what was so weird. And also people sort of parenting me like I’m you or whatever? It’s just like, “No, I’m actually afraid of danger.” Honestly, not as much anymore, but-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I didn’t realize this until much later that you guys weren’t allowed at people’s houses because I was your sister, and you were treated differently because I was your sister, and people weren’t allowed at our house because I was your sister.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. That was a big part of the reason too, why I ended up switching schools and I was like, “I think I want to stay,” and Mom and Dad were like, “Nope, you do not.”

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. Probably because you saw that they didn’t let me into the high school?

    Victoria Loeb:

    [inaudible 00:38:57]

    Victoria Loeb:

    But for me, I was like.. You said what?

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, the dean of students apologized to me at the end of eighth grade, because there was a point at St. Joe’s when all these teachers realized that it was you. That it was Ashley. It wasn’t us. I don’t know what happened-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It wasn’t a contagious virus in our home. It was just localized to me.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I don’t know what happened, what information they got. I didn’t even think of it one way or another as anything, because I wasn’t… I can’t even imagine what authority figures were thinking, but there was a turning point when all the teachers just started feeling badly for me. You could tell, they were really… Even the PE teacher. She started crying. She pulled me aside and talked to me about cutting stuff and she just started crying and I was like, “Why are you crying? Also, I hate you.” It was this weird thing where I didn’t even understand how they were feeling because they were just the enemy for so long. [inaudible 00:40:01] it’s random.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. But that was even a short period because I remember you and I both switched schools and then Ashley… Oh wait, I’m trying to remember when you went to rehab, because I remember you went… You overdosed, and I was in sixth grade and-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That was coming back.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh yeah, that was coming back because I remember you would come to my community service days-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my god. Yeah, because I came home from Vista, I came home from treatment in a really super gnarly, abrupt way, similarly to how I got there, and had finished that year of school and had no friends and was just home. And Mom and Dad had made my room into a sitting room. So I didn’t have a room. All my stuff was gone. They repainted everything. So I was sleeping on the couch there and none of us knew what I was going to do. There was no plan for me. I was 17 and there was no plan. And so Mom was like, “You’re going to go to Tory’s volunteer thing.” So I would go with Tory and her friends to volunteer. It was-

    Victoria Loeb:

    They loved it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my god. So basically, you had gone to rehab at that point when we were still at… Or I think it was the summer between fifth and sixth, and for Marina, that was between eighth and ninth. So I was just thinking about the timeline there, and then I think by… I guess to your point, Marina, of the parenting. I mean, I think it is interesting to think about with our childhood of just parenting for different kids. And I think Mom and Dad were very tired when I was a teenager, but I think their approach worked pretty well. I sort of knew where the boundary was and if I wanted to do what I wanted to do, there were certain things that I needed to make sure.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think they were more lax with… I mean, they were definitely more lax with me than with you, Marina. But I think with me… I mean, I definitely think with other parents, I might’ve been pegged as like a problem child, even just for drinking and smoking, because I mean I did. I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and I would party with my friends, but we would not drive and we would be relatively safe, and… I don’t know. It’s just interesting to think about the different approaches that they took, I guess, with each of us and how it progressed.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, for sure. I do wonder how they had energy for me and then not you, but maybe they just had a little leftover after Ashley went, and they were like, “We’re just going to spend it on Marina.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think they were terrified.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, I think they were so fucking scared.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, I know. I was so… I remember even when we were allied, when I was using with you and stuff, we were just in different roles. You were always on the radar and that was the one strategic mistake I always thought you made. I was always trying to stay under the radar. I didn’t get it. A lot of missions were sabotaged by-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well, like Dad wired… Because Marina and I would sneak out all the time, so we’d use the phone to arrange rides and stuff. And Dad wired the whole house so that the phones would shut off at a certain time-

    Marina Loeb:

    And internet.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And internet. Yeah. And this was before… He created the system. So yeah, Marina, you had some friends come and get the password, right?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. So I had a couple of friends, one of them was a hacker, and he went into Dad’s office when he was gone and extracted the password, and then used that to shut down the system without Dad knowing. And so I told you, “All right, we’re good.” No suspicion. How would he ever know? Because all the lines shut down at 10:10. The thing that sucks about that is if anything changes, if there are any unpredictable things, you need to change your time and everything. You can’t just plan something for hours ahead and hope it works out. Even though we kind of did, but-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Would you guys sneak out on school nights?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh yeah. All nights.

    Marina Loeb:

    Probably.

    Victoria Loeb:

    How did you go to school?

    Marina Loeb:

    Tired.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I got mono. [crosstalk 00:44:34].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    How did we go to school? Super tired.

    Marina Loeb:

    But back then, that was-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, you were also young enough where… And the excitement was worth it. So you did it, but Dad and I got in a huge fight, and I was like, “We know your password.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh no.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was like, “No.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, and so Dad changed it, but yeah, I was… That was like above… I think that was the thing. I literally did not care about what they… I know people say that. I know people are like, “Oh, I don’t care.” But I’m like, “No, really, for real didn’t care. Really.”

    Marina Loeb:

    Evidently.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Really did not care. I remember looking at them being upset with me and they would say things like, “We’re disappointed,” or whatever, and you’d be like, “No!” And I was like, “Cool. Does that mean yes or no?” People would try, “Oh, we’re disappointed in you,” or Mom would say, “I would prefer you didn’t do that,” and I was like, “Okay, that’s not a no.” So that, to me, it was just a whole other ball game. But yeah, I was really unaware that you guys were being ostracized at school and by friends. And I did not know that stuff until I went to treatment. I didn’t know. I mean, I knew you guys were witnessing knock-down, drag-out screaming fights all the time, that you were witnessing me pulling knives on Dad and myself, and-

    Victoria Loeb:

    So dramatic.

    Marina Loeb:

    We filmed it, too.

    Marina Loeb:

    It ended up looking really funny. I know it’s a serious story and everything. But when the fight managed to move outside in the front yard during daylight, Mom, Tory, and I were looking out the window and then Mom was just confused, but also it was obvious that you weren’t going to stop.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay, you have to tell the story so that people know what’s happening.

    Marina Loeb:

    Okay. So basically what happened was… Here’s how it started from my perspective. I heard a ton of laughter in the house and, and I was wondering what was so funny because it was obviously a bunch of people in Mom and Dad’s room. They were laughing, and as I’m walking to Mom and Dad’s room, Tory comes running down the stairs crying and she just runs past me. She’s like, [inaudible 00:47:02]. I was like, “Oh, it’s crying. Not laughing,” because they sound the same. It’s really wild. Anyway, so basically something bad had happened. The fight between you and Dad ended up in the kitchen. I think Mom, somewhere along the line, moved out of the way and you guys were screaming, fighting, and then you decided to reach, I don’t know, to heighten things, you reached into the knife drawer and grabbed a knife.

    Marina Loeb:

    And what was so amazing about the knife you grabbed was that it was like a really ornate carving knife. It was a total accident, but it was gilded and it was like a sword. Anyway, then Dad was like, “Oh shit.” [trigger Scott Riedel 00:47:52] and so you guys are both bending your knees, almost dodging each other.

    Victoria Loeb:

    No.

    Marina Loeb:

    Because he’s trying to reason with you, but he’s also still fighting. He’s not actually really deescalating. He’s still putting up a fight and then you’re-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Everybody was getting into an athletic position.

    Marina Loeb:

    You were! And that’s, I think, how you ended up outside because you guys were pivoting towards the front door and managed to pivot all the way outside. Down the stairs, around the sidewalk, in front of all of the neighbors.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I didn’t have shoes on. I never have shoes on whenever these dramatic moments are, I never have fucking shoes on. Apparently I cut him.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, you did?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh God.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I don’t remember that. I don’t remember the crying.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    This is per Dad, and then apparently… I don’t remember this. I remember vague things about this, but I do remember no shoes going, “Where am I supposed to go now?” and running down the street to some bench and being drunk and being like, “Well shit, I’m just going to lay down here.”

    Marina Loeb:

    With the [inaudible 00:49:06].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    With this ornate knife and no shoes on. I would get myself into these… I would take a stand and get myself into these situations where I was like, “I have no idea what I’m doing or where to go or what to do here.” I’ve really fucking bungled this one.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, it was a clear bungle. No one would stand down, and that was sort of the thing. After a while, I think, that’s why when Tory, Mom, and I were watching, Mom grabbed a camcorder and we just started filming it. We were like, “Okay.” It’s one of those situations where you know that it’s not supposed to be funny, but when you know that everyone’s going to be okay, you’re kind of like, “All right. Yeah, we should film this.”

    Marina Loeb:

    You know what I mean? It just got silly. And also, obviously a knife fight isn’t… I wouldn’t say it’s the most common form of combat in the house, but the fights were constant. I mean, it was like background noise. I remember being in my room and I’d hear screaming and it just was there. I didn’t think anything of it ever. It never stood out. And I never felt scared by it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They were constantly trying to control me and parent me and I was over that. I was so over that.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You had your door taken off the hinges, too.

    Marina Loeb:

    And then put back on. And then ripped off again.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes, he would take my door. And I was like, “Why are you taking my door?” And he would take my door, and I would light up a cigarette in my room and just start smoking it. And I’m like, “What do you think, I’m not going to do the things I’m doing if there’s no door? I don’t give a fuck if you know what’s happening. I don’t care. Take the door!”

    Marina Loeb:

    Right? Yeah. That’s the thing. You gave no shits, and you were so blunt and so vulgar. I think that was the hardest part for me., It just made me uncomfortable how vulgar you were.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I mean, my vulgarity from back then makes me uncomfortable.

    Marina Loeb:

    God. I remember, I just would cringe and wait until it was over, and there was a part of me that thought maybe it’ll stop because this is so obviously-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    God. Yes. Tory, did you want to add? I thought you were going to say something.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh, I think I was saying… I was thinking about the fighting and yeah, I think the one that really sticks in my mind is the CD case, where the CDs were flying everywhere. That was upsetting. I remember being really upset about that one.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Do you know why that happened?

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh my god, I remember this exactly.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I wanted to hit you and then hit the CDs instead.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, but do you know why? So this is the kind of shit that went down in our house. A couple of weeks before, meth had been found under my bed and Mom got pissed and flushed it and we had this fight about it, and I was like, “Yeah, it’s meth.” She did one of those things where she was like, “What is this? What is this?” And I was like, “It’s meth.” And she thought I was going to make something up, and I was like, “Yeah, it’s meth.” And she flushes it or whatever, and then like a week later… And Dad knows about this and whatever, but they so had no fucking clue what to do with me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    This is a perfect example, because a week later… I think I’m a freshman in high school and Dad finds out that I’ve pierced my tongue and loses it. That’s when the CD case went. And I was like, “Wait a minute.” And this was the kind of stuff where… It was just the kind of shit that went down in our house, which was you never knew what you were going to get in… What was going to be the thing that really pissed them off, because they were so all over the place without knowing what to do. Some offense that I did that I was sure was going to get me in real trouble, they would just not have the energy to deal with. And then a week later, it would build up and I would do something relatively mild, comparatively, and they would just lose it. And I was like, “Okay well, I don’t know what to tell you.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, they were very… That was kind of true for me as well, weirdly. I remember they found… This is sort of a famous story between the three of us, I guess. They found out I stored all of my empty cans and bottles in trash bags in my closet, because I was like, “I can’t put them in the trash because then they’re going to find them.” And so this was years worth of bottles and cans and Mom of course is cleaning out my closet, finds them, I come home and they’re all on the kitchen island and Mom’s ignoring me. And Dad says two things to me. He’s like, “First of all, you’re an idiot for not throwing these away. Second of all, you have terrible taste in alcohol. What is this? Bacardi Limón? What? Malibu Rum. What is this?” And he’s just shaming me for my alcohol. And I truly didn’t even get in trouble-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I mean, not wrong, not wrong.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And then I remember one time I had overslept when they’d come to pick me up from a sleepover, and that was the one time I was grounded because I was being thoughtless. They had to come and pick me up and I had slept through my alarm. And that was the only time. I was grounded for like 24 hours. And my phone, I remember. All my friends were like, “Did you die? What happened?” That was like the big event.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You literally could do no wrong. I mean, compared to… When it’s like, “You remember that time I went missing?” and nobody knows which time I’m talking about? I guess if you grew up in a house like that, it’s hard to get in real trouble. But at what point did you realize? Well, I guess, I don’t know. At what point did you realize this was a problem? Or this was addiction? Or when did it go from being funny to a real concern for you?

    Marina Loeb:

    I mean, I remember two moments that made that clear. I think the first one was that you were doing coke at weird times. Like not when it felt a little bit more like party time-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Not on your schedule?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, not on my schedule. You were doing it at a time when it wasn’t as fun to do it or something. You were doing it like it was maintenance. And I was-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Like during the day?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, during the… It just felt off. I mean, you weren’t doing that much at any one time. You know what I mean? It’s more fun to do it at a good time and enough that it’s fun. And it was a lot more… I didn’t relate to what you were doing. And I said to you, “I think you have a problem.” And-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I think you said, “I think we have a coke problem.”

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh yeah, I included myself in it. I don’t know why. That’s so thoughtful of me. And then you were like, “Get out of my room,” which was the biggest punishment you can get from Ashley Loeb, is she kicks you out of her room. Because your room was cool, and it was a fun place to be, whatever we were doing, good or bad. And you had a couch and it was all decorated and you had your photo books, and it was just fun.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    My room was purple. I had stuff hanging from the ceiling.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, it was decked out. And I think the second time was when I think you were really committed to meth. And-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Meth?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, I think that you just got a lot more into it, like more so than before. I don’t know. I think you weren’t even dabbling in coke. Like, “Ain’t nobody got time for that,” and the difference between you on it and when you weren’t on it was severe. You were just so pissed and sad and it was scary. You were treating me like I was an enemy all of a sudden. I was like, “No, we’re on the same team.” But then, you actually, you were in another fight with Dad when you were… What is the word for when you need the drug, but you don’t… You were craving-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Withdrawing?

    Marina Loeb:

    Withdrawing. Yeah, you were withdrawing and you were getting in trouble for some-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Jonesing?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, you were jonesing. You looked sick and to distract from what you had done, you basically turned me in. You told them that I had done something and you just told them all this stuff that was a secret. It wasn’t especially bad or dangerous or whatever, but you knew that they wouldn’t be happy about it. And I remember everything about that moment. And that was when they target locked on me a little bit, because I think that they… Obviously, they knew that we were in cahoots to some extent, but I think that’s when I got a lot more of that attention. And the thing is, when you’re… I think that those were the signs that you were on the downhill side. Like at the end of blow or whatever, when like things start going wrong. I don’t think that drugs make people bad. I don’t think a lot of things make people bad. I think that fear and desperation make people bad, and that’s obviously where you were at. So whatever you did in those states, it’s just… Yeah, I don’t know-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right. When I started to turn on you basically, because we were besties doing everything together and we wanted people to think we were twins and then you start to turn into a different person.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I think what really stands out, on a basic level, is that you were so self-centered. Impossibly self-centered. I mean, nothing mattered but you. But also, even just the smallest conveniences. It was so unrelatable. Even if you’re a sheltered kid who doesn’t understand the meaning of house labor or whatever it is, you were another type of human in that place. But Tory, you had some boundaries and stuff. You had some incentive to do things within some boundary, right?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well, and you also didn’t do… You also weren’t involved in the drugging, you weren’t involved in the fighting, you weren’t involved in… I mean-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. I think I made… I guess this is more normal high school, whatever, but I think too, all three of us looked like we were 18 when we were 13. So I was dating a junior in high school when I was in seventh grade, and Mom and Dad really didn’t like that. We still to this day have never talked about it. Also too, Dad’s like, “Thank god you never snuck out,” and I’m just like, “Yeah, thank god. Thank god I never got caught.” So I did do things, but that’s why I chalk it up to them being tired, but I think people… I remember my Spanish teacher told them, “I think Tory’s growing up too fast.” And I think-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And they’re like, “Uh-huh. Yeah, well.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Exactly. They were like, “Honey, that’s nothing.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I can just see the conversation in their head, like, “Lady, you have no fucking idea.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    I know. And I did get in trouble and I got put on disciplinary committee or disciplinary trouble at high school. So I mean, I definitely-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The dumbest shit ever. You should be ashamed of yourself for getting in trouble for that.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I know, I know. So I don’t know. I think they were just like, “We’re just going to reason with you here.” And I remember I got a speeding ticket and Mom and I, this is kind of random, but Mom and I had to go to court because I was just about to turn 18. And they were like, “Have you grounded her for this?” And Mom’s like, “Yeah, definitely.”

    PART 2 OF 5 ENDS [01:02:04]

    Victoria Loeb:

    …had you grounded her for this? Mom’s like, “Yeah, definitely.” [crosstalk 01:02:05] No, I was really signing myself up for SATs, and just being like, “Okay guys, I’m going to go take my SAT tomorrow, just letting you know.” And I don’t know, they were just like, “Okay, cool, bye.” [inaudible 01:02:19] They were tired.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Over it.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Get okay grades, get into college, don’t get arrested. Okay. You’re good.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. The stakes, the standards are what-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, exactly.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I guess, when does it go, for people listening, when does it go from my sister’s a rebel like, “Oh, she’s enterprising,” to “Oh shit, this is”-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    “A life-threatening problem.” When did you guys, because you guys learned, you had a very different experience in that. And I think we should talk about this, which is that I took up a lot of the mental space for mom and dad. So the focus, the resources, the therapy, the help, all of it was focused on me in an incredibly intense way for a relatively long period of time. And that had to have left less than was necessary for you guys in some ways.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That had to have felt like, “dude, she’s fucking up, and she’s getting all the attention. Why is she getting all this stuff when she’s just fucking it up?” And that kind of thing. And over and over again, can you speak to feeling like there I was, I don’t know what the word is, but like taking all the resources. [crosstalk 01:03:56].

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, monopolizing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative). Monopolizing.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, and this kind of ties back to your question before, which is I think when you started dating “he who shall not be named”, and you were disappearing a lot. I think when you started running away, that was when it became “Oh my God.” Even at the end when you were doing things that they didn’t like, just having you home was a relief-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Because then they at least knew that you were alive and safe. And so I think I remember that towards the end, before you went to rehab and you were just constantly running away, that was definitely a point of it was just always like, “Oh, Tory really wanted to see Avril Lavigne, and now Ashley’s missing.” Or for our birthday party, there was something and you ran away. That was a point of distraction where we never knew when you were going to be home. And there was just such a focus on having you home at any cost.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And how did that affect your life? How did that affect growing up in a house where all of the resources and attention is just so desperate, did you feel like it was unfair?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah I think at the times when it was disruptive to my life, I felt resentful, but I think, and again Marina could probably speak to this better. Because I think for me it was like in such a childlike mentality. And I also was just in my own world, and self-centered in my own childish way of like, “I want to do my things.” And so interruptions to that was frustrating for me. But yeah I think, again, I had just my view, I was sub-11. So like my view on it was very, very different.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But it was also [crosstalk 01:05:53].

    Victoria Loeb:

    But I didn’t have an adult perspective on it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It also took away focus for you for a long time while I was in treatment. So I’m not even talking, I think [crosstalk 01:06:04].

    Victoria Loeb:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You know, the recovering piece was a long period of time as well.

    Marina Loeb:

    I think that the disappearing moments, that’s when your personality had shifted already. So it was obvious that something was wrong. But yeah, if there’s like an action that indicates you were not a rebel, it’s that the attention though, when you were acting out and really fucked, I remember thinking that I was so glad that I was not receiving that attention.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

    Marina Loeb:

    I just wanted as little attention as possible. All the energy that was going towards you was like dodging a bullet. And I think that you leaving, it’s not that that mom and dad are bad, they did all these great things, but the focus that spilled over onto me when high school started was just unnecessary. It was just like, “all right, well time for us to all live our separate lives,” nothing happening over here, but not that they were prying into my stuff when I was gone and everything. They weren’t being weird, but I just sort of felt like, I remember looking at the clock on the wall in the classroom freshman year and wishing that I could just speed it up times a million, because I just felt like I was waiting out a prison sentence and I didn’t like where I was in the school, school was really intense. The funny part of getting rejected from the school mom and dad wanted me to go to was that I got into a better one actually.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You both did.

    Marina Loeb:

    Good luck. But for me it was definitely good luck. I think they wanted an artist, and they just didn’t have one. And they were like “this girl.” Yeah, whatever, I’ll take it. But they always supported my art and everything, so that was awesome. Because that’s really what I loved, but I never, oh my God, the attention that was on you, I was just glad it was being funneled away.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So what I’m hearing you say is that you didn’t feel like you were losing out on having parents because your parents were so preoccupied-

    Marina Loeb:

    No.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    With something.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was going to say, I think there were times where I guess by the end of my high school and even taking a year off and applying to college, like I think they were just done with child rearing. And I think your problems accelerated that. And so I think there were times where it was like I didn’t necessarily get the structure or like the I think motivation on like college and extracurriculars. And I mean, I did a lot of that stuff on my own, but I think there was a piece of it that I noticed was missing that my friends had. Like more hands-on and I think part of it’s like mom and dad’s personality, they’re like “I’m empowering you to do this yourself.” Which I feel like they’re not helicopter parents, but at the same time-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No.

    Victoria Loeb:

    That example I mentioned of like signing myself up for SAT prep, taking the SAT, signing myself up for the SAT, doing all of my college applications myself and at that point too [crosstalk 01:09:40].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Buying yourself birthday gifts.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, exactly. I think they were a bit like, not neglectful in any sentence, but just, I think at times it was just like this is a result of them being like burnt out basically. And just like, they’re done. So I don’t know. I mean, I think I turned out fine. So that’s fine. But that was the thought at the time.

    Speaker 2:

    Stay tuned to hear more in just a moment. I want to interrupt this episode to have a short little discussion about support groups. And there is no better person to talk to about this than my production coordinator, Ashley Jo Brewer AJB, if you will. AJB hi.

    Ashley Jo Brewer:

    Hi.

    Speaker 2:

    Okay. You’re a big fan of community. You attend community support group meetings. Why should people care?

    Ashley Jo Brewer:

    I absolutely love Community because it creates a community. And I know that sounds funny, but it truly provides a space for anyone and everyone, no matter what they are going through. Just to give you an example, I invited or told a friend about Community because she was really struggling with binge eating disorder and had gone to many different groups and felt shunned or not accepted, or like it wasn’t a place for her. And at Community, she found a place because in Community meetings we don’t care what the substance is, or what the struggle is. Everyone is accepted no matter where they are in life, no matter what they are recovering from. And I think that’s what’s beautiful about Community.

    Speaker 2:

    Oh, I love it. And I a hundred percent agree with you that the value is that you don’t have to know what your problem is, what your struggle is, what you want to give up or not give up, or whether you’re abstinent or whether you’re stopping, whatever it is, you are welcome. And you are welcome in this place. And it’s a great place to discover the answers to all the questions that you’re looking for in a community, and have that support. And it’s free to anyone. You go to lionrock.life and there is a tab with Community meetings. There are different days, different times, different subjects. There’s even a cooking group called Community Table. There are so many different options, something out there for everyone. So I highly recommend, maybe after you listen to this, if you are looking for more community in your life, more friends, more support, please, please go check out community lionrock.life, click that community tab.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Now, through watching, going through the recovery process with me, because I mean, theoretically, you kind of did, right? I mean, I came home, I overdosed, I went back, all these experiences that we had, you guys were part of that experience. It wasn’t like I just went away and got sober. During that process, do you think that the information that you guys learned has changed who you are? Or how has it shaped being part of the recovery process and having a sibling who’s in recovery, do you notice that that has shaped you differently than other people in your lives, who haven’t had that?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You know, one thing that’s interesting is like you guys were there for all the chaos and the crazy and the fun and the not fun, but you got to peer into this world multiple times, that most people don’t see. And, I remember getting sober and calling Tory every time I went grocery shopping because I was afraid to be in the grocery store by myself, because I didn’t want to like go down the alcohol aisle. And so I literally would just sit on the phone with Tory while I grocery shopped. And you guys were a really big part of the process, and have been a huge part of the support. So, the experience on the other end of having a sibling going through that, what is that like? Coming out of all the bullshit, and into the recovery piece?

    Marina Loeb:

    I think that once you returned to being a regular person, like your personality returned, that it was easier to see like what this really was, without having to personally relate to the experience. Right?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

    Marina Loeb:

    This is not the same if someone acts like shit, and their personality is the same, and then they stop acting like shit. You know, it’s not as obvious that something was like, plaguing them. You really associate things with what you perceive to be their personality. And I think it really helped with communication and being not as afraid of emotions, and the freedom of knowing that whether or not you are cool with confrontation or not, that there is a way of doing it that’s not terrible. Whereas most of the time people are inclined to sort of shut down, keep it in. And I think that even if you know the tools and stuff, that people do it anyway. But when you wake up to the possibilities or whatever, you at least know it’s there, you’re like, “Oh, I’ll just do this.” You feel like you can actually solve interpersonal problems a little better, and you’re not as afraid of negative emotions.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So what about going through that process made you feel that way?

    Marina Loeb:

    Um.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    What taught you that?

    Marina Loeb:

    The family times at the rehabs, when we would sit around and the counselors would basically mediate between you and us, which was usually horrifically awkward, but also educational. Yeah. You’re just like, well, didn’t want to get this close to my parents. But we’re here. Guess we’re sharing these stories. I remember you starting to share shit about me, and I was just like, this is not necessary. You keep your shit on your side of the street. [crosstalk 01:16:20] You snitch. Oh man. Yeah, big snitch culture, interesting. I feel like drug world hardens you a little bit, but in an honorable way too. Where you learned to take some more responsibility, I don’t know. Anyway-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I knew you wanted me dead sitting across the,-

    Marina Loeb:

    I remember looking at you, like do not, I will deny everything you’re saying. I feel like she’s lying. And yet, I don’t know, put her in the hole. But you know what I realized.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Talking ban really needs to go into effect right now.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah I know, but the thing that balanced it all out was that I realized mom and dad probably like blacked out with more-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They did.

    Marina Loeb:

    Some things, yeah. When you turned to them and I was like “oh shit” like I-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Everybody’s spot got blown up. Except Tory’s.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was like, I straight up, I don’t know what I would do if like you had your kids here, you know?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But they told me to.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah they did. You really were true about perhaps too much. You know?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    But the thing that made me not talk to you was, oh god, the ways you administered the drugs. Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They gave me a sheet I had to fill out and it was like list all the drugs you used, and how you administered them. And I asked my counselor, “are you sure you want me to write this stuff down? Like, is this necessary?” And she was like, “this is what’s necessary to stay sober. Like, are you willing to do it?” And I’m like well, okay.

    Marina Loeb:

    We were crying when you were doing it, which made it so much better. Because you were like “I administered it orally, and anally.” And we were like “Oh shit.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I guess I’m reading this fucking tell all. And I’m sitting in the middle of this massive group of people and mom and dad are sitting knee to knee with me. And I’m reading this piece of paper and it comes to ecstasy, anally and orally, and dad just starts laughing, like trying not to trying to keep his shit together. [crosstalk 01:18:45].

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah I heard him say that. [crosstalk 01:18:49].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They told me that I wasn’t going to stay sober if I didn’t share everything. So I was very thorough. But in retrospect, I’m not sure that I always stayed sober.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh god, yeah. I was going to add that I think for me, I definitely agree with where Marina, what you were saying, where it’s like giving you tools to own your part, and keep your side of the street clean. And just like a lot of, being humble, and again the introspection, those pieces, but I think also another thing is the community. Because I do go to at least one meeting a year with you, Ashley, and even just seeing the community, that you have the ability to be open, it’s unlike anything that I’ve ever seen before. That people just being that vulnerable with each other who are completely [crosstalk 01:19:48].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And you’re talking about 12-step meetings?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. But even the sharing meetings, right. I thinks it’s 12-step, like on your birthday.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [inaudible 01:19:57].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And obviously in rehab too, but this is also, I think, even thinking about it past rehab, people just being really honest with each other, and also being able to be so willing to help each other with anything. And I think you’ve helped me, like you’ve helped a number of my friends get sober, where I was like, this person has a problem. And it was just like, I don’t know what to do about it. And you helped you to kind of guide people to what they needed.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And I think, especially in this era of just binge-drinking culture, it is sometimes hard to know what’s normal, what’s circumstantial, what’s not, I think that’s been really huge for other people that I care about and sort of that, but I think also too, just checking myself, and being like, well, why are you drinking right now? Why are you smoking right now? And sort of having those checks that I think a lot of people who don’t have exposure don’t think about. And I think also too, when you have the genetic component, just being like am I thinking about this too much, am I over overdoing it? Are there consequences of my behavior this time where I like drink too much? I think especially in college, there were times where I remember losing my keys, my school card, my door, my car key, all these things. And it’s like, okay, this is consequences of my drinking. You know this is like, went out too hard. I lost my keys. I wasn’t paying attention.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’ve never seen anything more impressive than you at Tulane drinking, I literally was like, she would go out all night till like four in the morning, I was sober and dying.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I literally I thought I was going to have a full on a heart attack for not having enough sleep. And I go to bed and I’m like, I could not be more hung over sober. And just from being out, just like literally being out and Tory comes home and then gets up and goes to class. Okay.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. What a necessity.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I couldn’t have made it, yeah but let me just tell you something. I could not have made it to a class. Had I simply just being a sober person, like how you did that and then you made the Dean’s list. Like, I was just like, “Oh, she’s not an alcoholic, that what happens. She lives in new Orleans and has a normal life.” Like that’s what it looks like. I’m like, okay, got it. Yep, that’ll never be me.

    Victoria Loeb:

    But it’s interesting too, because I mean, as you know, I have a friend where we would drink together and go out, and definitely she would-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That would be more of my style-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, but the thing is she would still do well in school-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I would disappear.

    Victoria Loeb:

    All these things, but then when she did drink, then it would come out. She would get angry, or do things, basically have consequences, right? And they were very severe consequences, like things that screw you up. And so I think that’s also interesting of like all of the gradients of-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, different types.

    Victoria Loeb:

    What alcoholism looks like and what recovery, like who needs to be completely sober, who needs to check themselves? Like, I think, I don’t know. I think it’s definitely people have this sort of idea of this one size fits all. I think who have no exposure of like what using to the point of needing to get sober looks like, and they don’t realize that there’s so many variations of it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Have you ever felt the discrimination that comes along? Like other than obviously not being allowed at people’s houses, but the discrimination that comes along with like an alcoholics or pieces of shit, or-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Have you ever been around that?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think people sometimes will start to say things, and I don’t remember the specifics, but I remember needing to-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Can I have their address?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I remember needing to be like “Oh my sister’s sober. So let me prevent you from saying anything that you’re going to regret.” I’ve had those moments before, and I do feel like sometimes the discrimination of you’re drinking with people or whatever, and they know that you have, I don’t know. I just feel like people, if you have alcoholism-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They think you’re diagnosing them?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh yeah. That’s also an interesting thing. When people would get paranoid or people look at you differently, like they look at your drinking differently. If they know that you have a sibling that’s sober, like that’s also a thing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Ooh gotcha. That’s something I didn’t consider. Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Marina’s just like “I just was too drunk to tell.”

    Marina Loeb:

    I know right? Like, I guess I didn’t give a shit. Yeah. That’s funny, because I try to, especially when there’s someone who’s starting to say something they obviously don’t have any exposure, don’t understand what it is. I try to explain to them why they’re seeing what they’re seeing. Kind of.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, so you just drop into like a long, lengthy explanation of alcoholism?

    Marina Loeb:

    Well-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That makes them, they’re like, “okay, yeah.”

    Marina Loeb:

    Right? Yeah. They’re like-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I forget the part where I asked right.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Right?

    Marina Loeb:

    Well, hey, same result right?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But you’ve both been in situations where people clearly had animosity towards, do you think it’s towards sober people or you think it’s towards people who are actively, or they don’t make the delineation?

    Marina Loeb:

    Active.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh, I think people who are sober too, or I don’t know, there’s a stigma around like you went too hard that you had to get sober. That kind of thing or like not wanting to party with people being like, “Oh.” I mean, obviously there are some situations that you don’t want to be in, but just understanding what you can do with the sober person and what you can’t, some sort of people are down, are fine going to bars or drinking events-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And others aren’t.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They think we immediately become Mennonite.

    Marina Loeb:

    Actually, that is the one thing I noticed. I think that I haven’t like heard-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Celibate.

    Marina Loeb:

    So much, yeah. But like my roommate, I don’t remember what it was, but someone was sober. She found out on the app, and she’s like, “Oh hell no, I’m not going to do that.” I was like, “well, why don’t you just like ask them what they want? Because why are you assuming where they stand on XYZ?” Right? And I also, when I was app dating, I went on date with someone sober, and I can’t remember if he told me there or before, but I think it may have been there, but we went to a bar and everything and then he said it there. And I think he was trying to stop that from happening by literally like showing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Taking you to a bar?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, exactly. You know, it solves, right? Actually, that’s a pretty clever move if you think about it. Not that it like needs to be that way, but it was a clever move for what he was thinking.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    Right.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And some people don’t want to date sober people too. I think that’s like also situation that’s come up as like weirdness around like, “Oh, they don’t drink.” You know? And it’s like-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that from sober people who have said that being sober is like really hard for them because people don’t want to date sober people. I don’t know. I just never-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, its a thing. It really is a thing.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It just did not stop my endeavors, but I-

    Marina Loeb:

    Also, they don’t want to drink in front of someone that’s not drinking.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And I get that, I get that. [crosstalk 01:27:35]

    Victoria Loeb:

    And therefore I wouldn’t want- [crosstalk 01:27:40]

    Marina Loeb:

    I wouldn’t want to date someone allergic to peanuts and like never be able to have a PBJ. You know what I mean?

    Marina Loeb:

    Totally. For sure.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You’d want to date someone where it’s like, okay, you’re going to eat your PBJ. And they’re okay with it.

    Marina Loeb:

    Totally, I’m kidding.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And you’re constantly eating PBJ. And you’re eating like 10 PBJS, you probably don’t want to date someone, that you know what I mean? You got to find like [crosstalk 01:28:02].

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, gluten free, I have a lot of questions. Is it almond butter?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I feel like you can’t be like a heavy drinker and be with someone, I’ve also seen couples where it’s like-

    Marina Loeb:

    I mean, I’ve seen that.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Well yeah, but I feel like also it can be problematic. It’s like-

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And also the situation of like somebody who should be sober, but is trying to control their drinking with someone that’s over-drinking and you’re like, Ooh, this is just not a good-

    Marina Loeb:

    But there’s also that two people who drink too much and one gets sober, but they’re married or they’re still together. I mean, those situations happen too. And there’s all types of, I think the thing that’s really important to remember is your sobriety cannot be contingent on anything.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Right.

    Marina Loeb:

    Anything.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    My sobriety, I will say this one thing. If the world is ending maybe, but.

    Victoria Loeb:

    If you had three months to live.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, maybe not. No. I could do a lot in three months.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh, yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I mean like a day.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, way too long.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Three months, things could get real, real grim, yeah, that’s way too long, but I think- [crosstalk 01:29:16] Tory. Tory. Three months?

    Marina Loeb:

    That’s how we know she is more moderate.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Totally, totally.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, like three months.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And then what could happen in three months?

    Marina Loeb:

    Start careening possibly.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I hate to break it to you, but do you remember? I came home and within three months you and I went to Florida after I got out of treatment.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh god.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I took the rental. I ended up at a crack house in Tampa.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah I wasn’t happy about that because you made me walk back by myself from the bar. And then I had to go back to the bar to look for you.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But I was gone.

    Victoria Loeb:

    What the hell.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I took the Mustang and the dude, I remember walking into the crack house and being like, “Oh, I’m in a crack house.” And then blacking out and then waking up. And there was a bag of coke in my pants, and flushing it. Because I freaked out. I was like, “I don’t want to do coke. What am I doing?” And I flushed it, because I was like, I don’t want to do drugs.

    Marina Loeb:

    Right. That’s good.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You know, like freaked out.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You know, totally.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It was way too late. I should’ve just held onto it. I don’t know what.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And the trip started so well. I was very excited because you convinced mom to get a mustang, a convertible. And of course we had a photo album that we were going to make and-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    We did. We made a photo album.

    Victoria Loeb:

    We made an album, we also, we went jet skiing and-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    How old were you?

    Victoria Loeb:

    You broke jet ski.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes I did.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Afterwards.

    Marina Loeb:

    You broke it?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, I just made it go upside down.

    Victoria Loeb:

    She made it go upside down. I was in, I think I was in seventh grade. So it was like 13 at that point?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was like 12, 13.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So I was 17. Yeah. I was 17. Yeah. That was a bad move. Believe it or not that wasn’t according to my plan either. But yeah, I just could not stop drinking.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Weird.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It took a while. Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    That’s actually what I tell people too, when someone like parent or friend gets sober, I just let them know that, the likelihood that they won’t relapse is smaller than when they, basically saying that-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You should be a motivational speaker.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    I know. I know. Like they can-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So I just wanted to let you know, you’re probably going to fail. So-

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Expect it.

    Marina Loeb:

    So you can get back on your feet and get, it takes a couple tries oftentimes, right? Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes.

    Marina Loeb:

    And I try to say that with my Nicorette addiction to [inaudible 01:31:56] and he’s like, well, how many times? Yeah, right?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    As many as it takes.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, apparently I’m an outlet.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I think it’s interesting. And I think this is the dilemma often with teenagers, and I suspect I will know coming up in a decade, what it feels like. Great. And you have to force your kid. Like I was forced, I was put in programs like that was, it was not, no one asked me. Quite contrary.

    Marina Loeb:

    Right.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But contrary to being asked, it was very much a “we’re putting you on a plane.” And so it was interesting because they expected me to be sober when I got out. But I had no buy-in to any of these places until a long time in.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And so it was always interesting to me, like I came home and it was like, “I can’t believe she’s back at it.” But I never said I wanted to do this. This was never part of my plan. This is part of your plan. But I do think that those stints did-

    PART 3 OF 5 ENDS [01:33:04]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Those stints in rehab stopped me from creating more chaos outside, and so I was not able to harm myself as much as I would have had I been free on the streets of Mexico.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, you’d be dead for sure.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t have lived. I really am sure. I really strongly feel that I would not have lived.

    Marina Loeb:

    You would have died, for sure.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well, and it’s interesting because there was even a period of time, Marina, when you didn’t talk to me because you were sure I was going to die.

    Marina Loeb:

    Not only were you going to die, but I think that the other part that preceded that awareness was that, when your personality changed, you betrayed me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    That’s why I was like, “Fuck you.” You basically completely break an alliance. Personality changes, you’re a dick, fine, whatever, that’s okay. And then you start deflecting mom and dad’s shit, by being a snitch.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Well, that’s the selfish and self-centered stuff, right?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Like when we talked about in alcoholism-

    Marina Loeb:

    But then it got worse.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, to the extreme, we say selfish and self-centered to the extreme. You get between me and the drugs, and I will obliterate you. That’s it.

    Marina Loeb:

    But I wasn’t even in between you and the drugs. I think both you and he who shall not be named were terrified that I would get in the way, but I was just like… There came a point when-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    But that would be considered getting in the way. Even though you didn’t see it that way, I don’t remember this, but even though you didn’t see it that way, the point where I’m shooting heroin and you know about it, and you know where it’s coming from and what’s happening and you’re not down with the sickness-

    Marina Loeb:

    Yes, disturbed [crosstalk 01:35:02].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, thank you, thank you, fully up the ’90s. I can see how in my addict brain, that I would be like, “Oh, danger, Will Robinson. This is a problem. You have to be eliminated”, or whatever. I, again, don’t remember thinking that, but I know that’s how I felt about anything that was going to disrupt. You know what it was? It was like “Protect, keep this at all costs.’ So whatever I needed to do, and “This” being the drugs and alcohol.

    Marina Loeb:

    That makes sense. Except that like, mom and dad are still the enemy. It didn’t even matter. You were being a jerk or whatever you were being, honestly, you weren’t even a jerk at a certain point. You were just no one. You were just entirely out of your light, I don’t even know what you became.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I became a woman that runs away with her-

    Marina Loeb:

    Cast.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, with your broken ankle.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    With my broken foot. Oh, I was going to say my boyfriend’s mother.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, I remember that.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, that’s the best. Oh, boy.

    Victoria Loeb:

    That was… Oh my god.

    Marina Loeb:

    That story is so… Obviously it’s not good, but it’s funny on paper. I’m sorry.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, I remember one time being a little scared. There was one moment where I was scared, where I remember, this seems to be a theme, you were taking me to get Taco Bell, it was an easy bribe. I was always down for the Taco Bell. And then we drove to Santa Clara, I think, because you were picking up drugs or something at the boyfriend’s mom’s house. I remember it was raining and you were driving 100 on 101. And I remember being like, “Oh my god, I’m not safe.” I think that was like a-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That’s what tipped you off?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, that’s what tipped me off.

    Marina Loeb:

    Wow.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I always felt like you always were protective of me.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Trying to invite your friends.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, even when you’re being a psycho, you were always protective of me and you’d always be like… And so I think that was a moment where I was just like, “Ooh, this is sketchy.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It was my driving that got her.

    Marina Loeb:

    You know what’s funny about that? Is that-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Of all the things.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, that was her meth stage, so it just reminded me that you feel a lot safer when she’s driving on heroin, I’ll tell you that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Okay. No, trust me, you don’t.

    Victoria Loeb:

    No, she got in a car accident, remember? With [Crosstalk 01:37:34].

    Marina Loeb:

    No, she was on-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, I was on pills.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, she was on pills. She was on Klonopin.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 01:37:40] downers. You were on downers, okay.

    Marina Loeb:

    But she also was…

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I was in a blackout.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, so she hit someone. You hit someone coming back from a funeral.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, no.

    Marina Loeb:

    What was horrible about it was that, but what was great about it was that he didn’t have it in him to get upset. He was just like, “Oh, one more burden.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my god.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was just like “Keep it [crosstalk 01:38:04].”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Since I learned about this car accident in rehab, you guys kept referring to, “And then the car, and dah, dah, dah,” during a family week, and I was like, “What are you talking about?” Literally, do you know how that happened? That fucking happened because, this was back in the day when Canadian pharmacies would send you pills, and I bought a bottle of Klonopin from a Canadian pharmacy, had it sent to the house, told mom and dad it was coming from the treatment center. They were sending me some of my meds.

    Victoria Loeb:

    God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I don’t know why they believed that, but they did.

    Marina Loeb:

    You’re a good person.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Thank you. And I took one and nothing happened. So I took another one and nothing happened. So I took another one and nothing happened. So I took another one and nothing happened. So I took the whole bottle, which I do not understand how, one, I didn’t die, but also, two, if they weren’t working, why take the whole bottle?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Because you’re like, “My tolerance is low.”

    Marina Loeb:

    I think you almost killed Brandon, at least. He was in the backseat, but he would have been T-boned.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Brandon was in the back of the car, and she got whip lashed.

    Marina Loeb:

    Both of my best friends? Oh yeah, Because I remember thinking-

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 01:39:15] It’s kind of funny, because she [crosstalk 01:39:18].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Where you in the car? Who was in the car?

    Marina Loeb:

    It was Brandon and Amelie. And I remember, I don’t know-

    Victoria Loeb:

    And you were in the car.

    Marina Loeb:

    And I was in the car, but you pulled into traffic, but your reaction was deleted. So a Porsche was speeding down and it [inaudible 01:39:32] at you, but we almost got T-boned and they were on the side that would have been hit. And I think I thought about it when Amelie died, because I was thinking you almost killed my best friends. And then I was like, “Oh, but she died anyway.” It’s a dark thought, but it wasn’t a dark thought in his head. [crosstalk 01:39:46] It’s like “You dodged death so well, and then…”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So, in that situation, how is it possible I didn’t get arrested?

    Marina Loeb:

    I don’t know. Well, the cop came to record. You really held it together, though. I remember, I remember seeing you in your ripped jeans and shit and just hoping you would keep it together, because the cop has to come and-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So I spoke to the police?

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, you did. You did. I don’t remember exactly how well it was, but you, especially-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Enough to not get arrested. Jesus.

    Marina Loeb:

    But also, we had no idea you were on pills. You didn’t tell anyone about this. So I’m just learning this now. I didn’t know at the time that you were on Klonopin. All I knew later was that it was Klonopin. But given that you took so many-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s a miracle. It’s a miracle, but I was in a blackout for a couple of days.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God.

    Marina Loeb:

    I think we were going to the movie theater or something.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, I think I dropped you off at the movie theater and then I disappeared. I have no idea where I went or what I did.

    Marina Loeb:

    Well, you made it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    She made it back.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Enterprising.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Oh my God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I went missing and who knows what happened?

    Marina Loeb:

    Obviously, it’s not great. And things happen to people for sure. But I also would like to point out that so much more bad should have happened to you, enough times, that-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    You’re lucky, but it’s also I do think that people should have the freedom to exercise judgment, even it doesn’t turn out.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It calls into question, “Everything happens for a reason.” I’ll just put it that way.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Well, [crosstalk 01:41:27] you’re alive.

    Marina Loeb:

    Well, yeah. In that case, you’re the Messiah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. The last time that you used, the fact that you didn’t die is miraculous. [crosstalk 01:41:39].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The fact that I didn’t catch any diseases is miraculous.

    Marina Loeb:

    Okay. You’re past labeling your…

    Victoria Loeb:

    You could have overdosed easily.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes. That too. But then, even not overdosing, the fact that I didn’t catch anything is also…

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Somebody wanted you alive.

    Marina Loeb:

    The man upstairs?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The man upstairs, he wants me to do God’s work. Okay. So we digress. How does it fit into, when we started, when dad and I started with Ian Lion Rock and everything that has come from that and working in the industry and having this be part of your lives, what did you think about it then? And how do you feel about it now?

    Marina Loeb:

    Then, it seemed like a great idea, that is an obvious solution to some barriers to getting help. It wasn’t obvious to anyone else which shocks me because I think I believed in humanity a little more, that they would hear about this and be like, “Oh yeah, that’s a great idea.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Mistake numero uno.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. Seriously. Like what the hell? And I like that there are all these extraneous details about wellness that I learned on the side, just from hearing you talk about certain principles of treatment and la la la, because I think that the things about AA and the things about getting help from substance abuse are things that would better everyone’s lives. It’s just that addicts are in an emergency place and it it’s life or death for them.

    Marina Loeb:

    Whereas, for the rest of us, we just go through live our lives, experiencing sort of undue pain. Or not undue pain, unnecessary pain-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 01:43:35] on process, too.

    Marina Loeb:

    On process as well. And now it’s interesting that especially seeing things takeoff way more intensely during the pandemic, it’s like that time out everyone’s on and their partners can do what they’re doing and all the illusions just make it-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Timeout.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, the timeout, where you thinking about what you’ve done, and all the things that allowed people to mask a problem. For example, going to the bar and stuff like that, and using under the guise of whatever we use.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Social.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. And all that. It’s unfortunate that it took a pandemic to create that influx. But it makes a lot of sense.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I was really hoping that we weren’t going to need a pandemic for that. Turns out I’m not in charge.

    Marina Loeb:

    It’s hard, because, as an adult, you kind of have to turn yourself in and the idea of giving up your drug, even on a small scale, even something, for example, for me, something like nicotine, which doesn’t get you high. I guess some people do, they get lightheaded, which is shitty or whatever, and it doesn’t really how you act or anything, but I still have the behaviors of an addict. It’s just that it’s easier to get, but the idea of even having a little less of it, I get so afraid of being uncomfortable, the taking away what someone’s using to feel better or to avoid pain, it’s profound what it takes to do that. So, in that way, I get it and, not being forced into it, it’s even harder.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And sorry, so just to refresh on the original question was like having Lion Rock as part of your life. I was just going to speak to that. So I was just making sure I was remembering correctly.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I think for you, it’s interesting because it’s like I always expected that you would be in this field. I think you just have such a knack for helping people, you have a gift of having the experience, but then also having the skill of really making people feel comfortable being vulnerable with you in a way that they feel comfortable sharing and trusting that you know what you’re talking about and that you’re giving them a hope to a future that’s less painful for them when they’re suffering.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And I’ve seen it with a number of my friends, again, that have spoken with you and some of it’s about a partner or about themselves, about a family member. And so I think that makes sense. I think oddly, in a weird wad, for dad, it makes me sometimes sad that for him, his starting this company obviously it was the exposure from you, but also his sister in a fight that was lost. And so I guess sometimes I think about it and I wonder, is this a sad reminder for him all the time of this part of his life. I don’t know why that makes me think of that. But I think for him, it’s sort of more of a chance these things coming together in his life to… Obviously he’s always been an entrepreneur, but I think putting his energy towards solving this problem is sort of bittersweet, in a way. So anyway, I don’t know for what that’s worth. It’s just something I think about.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. That’s interesting that you point that out. I think I was speaking a little broadly, but I feel like what you’re doing now is exactly what you were meant to do, with the combination of your personality, your skills, your experience, and all that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I have a very specific set of skills.

    Marina Loeb:

    Were you imitating the defective Liam Neeson? “I have a very limited set of unique skills.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    “I will find you and I will get you sober.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    “It might not be today.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. It might not be today. But I have a very specific set of skills.

    Marina Loeb:

    If you start being the creepy Liam Neeson of sobriety, that’s when we’ll know you’re on the downhill of who knows what. So much scarier if you’re sober, too. You’re like “Please tell me she had something to drink.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Totally. It is. Let me tell you, as a sober person, it’s really secure when you start to do fucked up shit or go up the [inaudible 01:48:27] because you’re just like “Dude, I’m a hundred percent sober doing this.” That was my thought process while I was sober. Like I had no excuse. Like the car accident we’re talking about, I legitimately was not… I don’t remember any of that. But there’s so many things I’ve done in sobriety where I’m like, “Nope, I got nothing. That was just-“

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 01:48:51] someone that’s very objectively unattractive. It’s like, “Nope, you were fully within your right mind.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No excuse.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was going to say something that was maybe a little bit off topic, but maybe it was sort of going back to the living with this exposure where it’s this piece of your life where I think also just the always recovering, and how addiction can come out in a lot of different ways. I think a lot of people have this impression of you get sober and then like, boom, you’re fixed. And I think, being part of your life and seeing the daily struggle, not just with substance, but food and different things that come up, and the underlying depression, anxiety. And I think it’s both hard to… It feels very helpless sometimes to feel like, “Oh, I can’t really…” That this is a lifelong, both recovery and struggle. Then obviously with Doc being in recovery and other people that being kind of exposed to that, I think, sometimes it’s, from an empathetic perspective, hard. But I think it’s also illuminating for people that maybe don’t understand that’s how recovery works.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Is that scary for you to have…? It’s scary for me. So I’ll just preface it by saying, but is it scary for you to have your sister and her husband both be in recovery and that your nephews have parents who are alcoholic?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And I think that, with dad starting the company, it’s like “Sister, it’s genetic, we all know this.” We talk about all the time with your kids, little things, which I think is sometimes paranoia and sometimes real. And I think sometimes it’s scary. I think sometimes it’s frustrating where it’s sad, where it’s like life is harder, I do believe, for people that struggle because it’s a little bit like you have to be constantly doing the work, which is more exhausting and it’s like it can’t be easy.

    Victoria Loeb:

    So I think it’s hard for me to watch and sad for me to watch sometimes that life can’t be easier from an emotional perspective. And I think it-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Did that come up for you when I went to treatment, this year?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Definitely. Yeah. I don’t like seeing you in pain and struggling. And I think also trying to explain this to my partner who doesn’t really understand. He kind of understands, but not really. And so we have a lot of conversations and it’s interesting where I sort of have that bounce back of like, “Oh, you don’t get it because you didn’t grow up with it. This is a forever thing. This isn’t just a one and, boom, you do this. And then you leave and you’re “Fixed”.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Right.

    Victoria Loeb:

    So, that has been a sort of illumination of “This is the normal perspective” versus “This is my perspective of growing up with somebody that has always and will always struggle with this arena of things.” So, I think that’s definitely different than folks that aren’t exposed to this world.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And like, “She should be cured by now”? If we’re being honest, I was like, “What the fuck. I should be cured.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Or “Going to this, is this going to…” Not solve, but-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And I think it’s like, “Well, no, because it’s not, there’s no solve. But it’s hard because it’s different to when you think of with alcohol and drugs, I think it’s hard for people also to think of food struggles as life and death. And they sort of get, when it comes to drugs and alcohol where it’s like poison. But I think it’s harder when it’s “No, like this is the same thing. It’s just a different manifestation.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. The way I explained it is it leads to that.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. That’s funny, because I had a thought, but then I was listening. You know when that happens?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yes, sorry. I [crosstalk 01:53:06] the conversation also.

    Marina Loeb:

    No, you didn’t.

    Victoria Loeb:

    No, you didn’t.

    Marina Loeb:

    You were actually so good that I stopped thinking of it. It’s funny though that you… I’m not like afraid at all [inaudible 01:53:18] in treatment. I’m like “Good.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You mean recovery.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. Recovery, sorry. I feel badly for your future, if you have a child that was like you, I don’t think I would wish that on anyone. But it was fun being a sibling, but wow. You were just a full-time job, I guess, that you couldn’t be good at.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 01:53:49] I’m going to have a kid like Ashley, I’m just going to be always on the phone and being like, “I don’t know what to do.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You saw my kid this weekend.

    Marina Loeb:

    But the thing is you and dad-

    Victoria Loeb:

    I really want to hide sometimes I’m like, “He’s getting mad at me. I need to hide.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I look at him and I’m like, “Oh yeah, Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.”

    Marina Loeb:

    But you guys have the skills. You guys have better-

    Victoria Loeb:

    What?

    Marina Loeb:

    You guys may not be able to cure someone else’s issue. But, at least, you’re not necessarily going to be fueling the flames. When they’re trad parents, traditional parents. Sorry, little Silicon Valley there.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    My God. Help us.

    Marina Loeb:

    And then they’re dealing with an addict and they don’t have any of the skills backgrounds, ways to identify. All their baggage, all their shit comes out along with the vehicles of their non abilities for coping and communicating. And the other thing too, is that the likelihood of preventing something from getting really bad is possibly lower, because for example, say you grew up in a household where you’re trying to raise overachieving kids at all costs and whatever. And there’s none of that healthy, balanced way of doing that. So treating them like a human rather than like a machine that’s supposed to-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Tiger mom?

    Marina Loeb:

    Well, there’s Tiger mom. And then there’s-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    [crosstalk 01:55:29] called me a Tiger mom.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, I called you. Well, because you’re the year of the tiger.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Wait, what was I calling you? Maybe you’re a helicopter parent, but no, no, no. You’re not.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    How am I a helicopter parent?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I can’t remember what we were joking. We were joking-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Teach a man to fish.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. You teach them to fish. Yeah. It’s funny because I wouldn’t expect myself to have an addict child [inaudible 01:55:56], but that’s probably… I don’t know why.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I’m just like, “Oh no. Oh no. What am I going to do?”

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I don’t know. I feel like my kid, if I were to have one, would feel like… I feel I’d screw it up by over doing the reverse. Where I feel like they feel abandoned by me where I’d be like, “You got this.” For everything, I’d just be like, “You got this, go ahead.” And they’d be like, “Why didn’t you hold my hand or something?” I don’t know.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You mean not like me, where I’m like, “Oh, that’s a disorder. Oh, that’s a disorder. Oh, that’s a disorder.” Although actually Dak has turned out to be way worse than me. One of our kids is throwing a temper [inaudible 01:56:44] he comes to me quietly, dead serious. He’s like, “Do you think he’s bipolar?” And I was like “No. I think he’s four and he didn’t get what he wanted. Do I think he’s bipolar?” Oh my God.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, it’s natural to have those thoughts.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I laughed at it so hard. So hard. I was like, “Babe. No.” I mean, that is the scary piece of it. Thinking about it from this perspective is a totally different experience. And I think what I wanted you guys to talk about was there’s different experiences. There’s my experience, which was very drunk and high a lot, kind of a dream state.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I don’t think [crosstalk 01:57:35]

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And then there’s the sibling experience. Tory is the young sibling and then Marina is like the… Why can’t I think of the word?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Co-conspirator?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Co-conspirator. We’ll go with that. She has a very specific set of skills.

    Marina Loeb:

    [crosstalk 01:57:53]

    Victoria Loeb:

    Along for the ride till she wasn’t.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Exactly.

    Marina Loeb:

    I would like a more important esteemed title. Thank you.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The person who tried to keep us from getting in trouble when-

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, God. He did. Yeah. I was your agent, I was your manager. Gave you some good ideas.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You did. You got us out of trouble a few times.

    Marina Loeb:

    Did I? I also got us in trouble, a few times.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They cancel each other out. Okay. Top two funniest memories from our childhood.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, instantly.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Instantly. Really? Okay.

    Marina Loeb:

    Instantly. I have one.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You could do twenties, but…

    Marina Loeb:

    I have top of my head one, which was that we were young enough and it was also pre-digital dominance and everything. And there was no social media. We weren’t-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I was in AOL chat rooms. I’ll have, you know.

    Marina Loeb:

    Right. Yeah. But you couldn’t even… It wasn’t the same. So we spent a lot of time just entertaining ourselves. And I was starting to take art classes and I had Sculpey, which is basically a type of clay.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was going to tell this one too.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh, damn. Sorry, Tory. You’re going to have to figure [crosstalk 01:59:27] So, I already knew how to draw. So actually, it was easy to sculpt something realistic. And Ashley had the idea that I should skull a dick… I’m sorry, a penis, whatever the polite word is. And she dressed up like a boy and wore backwards cap or whatever, and baggy jeans. And we fixed the Sculpy penis to her fly. So it kind of looked like she had like a dick hanging out of her pants.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It did look like I had a dick hanging out of my pants.

    Marina Loeb:

    It did. It really did. And that’s how it was crazy because the thing is, we don’t realize is that, the next part of the story is, I’ll just cut to there, we decided to walk around Safeway for fun. And just to get a rise out of people who think that there is some guy walking around with his dick out. And here’s the thing. If you see a skin colored object hanging out someone’s pants, you actually don’t look that hard, but in your peripheral vision, it looks exactly like that. And we just walked around and I don’t think I’ve ever laughed so hard in my life just watching people’s faces. They were so shocked and they were aghast, they didn’t know what to do with themselves. But you were working on, I don’t know how you could hold it together. I needed to go into a corner and just laugh. But you just walked around, held it together and flunked your faked dick it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh God. It was funny. I probably scarred someone. So if whoever you are, I apologize.

    Marina Loeb:

    You provided a lot of stories.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, God. That was your story Tory?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Okay. Yeah. And then I had a story and then I lost it. Okay. But I was going to say that was funny, because I don’t think I went to Safeway, but I was around for the experience.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You all remember the one from our childhood, but I didn’t want to tell the story of… Okay, this one is from our twenties, but from your bachelorette trip where we went to a resort and it was a series of unfortunate events. It was an empty… Everything that could go wrong, did. We thought it was going to be this really luxurious resort. And everything looked like… It smelled like sewage. And there if you walk around everywhere and it’s huge property and we couldn’t get into the better place to go to go in the-

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh yeah.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And Ashley was very enterprising and attempted to get us in. And I feel like it was was a Chevy Chase vacation.

    Marina Loeb:

    It was.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was sure he had followed us around and just filmed.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And the ocean where this resort was, was brown. Do you remember that? Because of the…

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    Because the season. It was so Brown with dirt, that my white bathing suit turned brown, and forever changed the suit.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yes.

    Marina Loeb:

    And it didn’t happen all at once. It was like a trickle of “What is happening?” And the food remember? I don’t know what was wrong with the food, but I remember we were hoarding the canned peppers for whatever. Like, “It’s the only ones I trust.” There was some weird. The next step is getting taken. We were like “This is the beginning of Hostil. We’re going to go for this much money, because we’re American.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Does dad have a unique set of skills?

    Victoria Loeb:

    And our phones and credit cards stopped working and-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    And then they wouldn’t give us the internet password, because we had to pay for it. And we’re literally trying to use our cards to pay for it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    They wouldn’t give us the internet password because we had to pay for the internet, but we couldn’t pay for the internet because our bank cards weren’t working because we had to get on the internet and call.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh, my God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    We were at an impasse.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh yeah. And then this is one from slightly younger, but I was going to tell the theme of Ashley making multiple people cry on my behalf because she was so protective. I remember one time this happened because somebody kept stealing my backpack or something. I had a-

    PART 4 OF 5 ENDS [02:04:04]

    Victoria Loeb:

    It was like somebody kept stealing my backpack or something. I had a Spice Girls backpack. And you bitched them out because they were teasing me. And I’m pretty sure they cried. And then my high school friends weren’t being nice to me for some reason, and Ashley just got, like, older sister, just like, “I’m going to make you feel like you’re just the biggest piece of shit,” but in a really nice, mature way. But it was like, “Ooh” it was what people describe with big brothers, where it’s like, “No one’s going to mess with you.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    And then the last one, which is definitely a favorite, was a guy who I was dating in high school that didn’t treat me as well as he should have. And he was 6′ 2″, probably over-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    He was a big dude.

    Victoria Loeb:

    … over 200 pounds. And Ashley’s like, “If you make my little sister cry, you’re going to regret it.” And just goes at him as though she was… Just this aggressive stance thing. And he legitimately flinched and thought that you were going to punch him.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    He thought I was going to hit him. Yeah, and he was terrified. I was like, “You’re 6′ 2″. You could literally step on me.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, Tory’s like, “Did you just threaten my boyfriend?” I was like, “No, I just told him that if he makes you cry again, we’re going to have a big problem.” It doesn’t sound like a threat to me, it sounds like-

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It sounds like a PSA.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, a PSA. Yeah. [Crosstalk 02:05:31].

    Marina Loeb:

    Who was this? Can I ask? No?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I’ll tell you after the call.

    Marina Loeb:

    Okay. [crosstalk 02:05:33].

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I don’t remember.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Like, which one? Oh, man. [crosstalk 02:05:44]

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, I feel like we had, I don’t know, for all the shit show that it was, I feel like we’ve had a lot of fun too.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I’m trying to think, so Ashley… This is also just a funny thing where-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    It’s all so enterprising.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, this is the enterprising piece where you’re-

    Marina Loeb:

    Very much.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Where I would also go visit you, and you’d be like, “We’re going to go to a Korean spa,” where I had never been. You’re just naked, having people hit you, throw milk on you. [crosstalk 02:06:14] You’re in high school. And you’re like, “All right, I can get down with this.” Situations where I feel like…

    Victoria Loeb:

    I just remember, I’m visiting you in Arizona too, where you had your own house and you were sober. And our whole relationship was long distance starting when I was 11. And so we would always go on these trips and it was always like just the craziest adventures where you’re like, “Okay, we’re doing this.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    But yeah, so when you were living in Orange County, I remember you calling, and you’re like, “Oh, I need to get a house cleaner so I put this ad up on,” Or, “I found this person on Craigslist.” I didn’t even know what it was.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, okay there’s a little preface to this, that my friend, one of my friends became a professional dominatrix, and I knew nothing about this world. And then learned all about this world. I was totally not into any of that stuff. It just didn’t do anything for me, but I heard that there were these submissives who liked being told what to do. And that these doms, these dominatrix or whatever, doms, would have these subs, these submissives, who would clean their house for free and like do all this stuff for them.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And that this relationship worked for them and this was great. And so I was like, all I heard was you could get free housecleaning.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God, my favorite part of this story though, was like Ashley calls and says, “Yeah so I hired this guy. He’s a businessman. And he comes to my house and like strips down, wears this thong, he has like a micro penis and he wants me to tell me that he has a small dick. And that he’s like a piece of shit. And I was doing it for a while and it was fine. But like, honestly, it got kind of exhausting. I can’t always be home when he’s cleaning.” And I’m like, “Oh my God.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my God. I didn’t even tell the story about when I was like 14, when you took me to an S&M club. But that’s another whole… Remember I said the adventures that we went on?

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah.

    Marina Loeb:

    You should join in all the adventures.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. She came down and we would go, I was like, “This is what we’re doing. We’re going to this S&M club.” And I told her, I was like, “It’s just literally no one you want to see naked. So don’t worry.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. I remember I was taking pictures. Because I don’t know why I was allowed to have my digital camera. And it was in the era of obviously digital cameras. And I was taking pictures of a woman being burned on a spider web. This is wild. And Ashley’s like, “Here’s a Velcro miniskirt to wear. Here you go. A leather top.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I mean that’s parenting at my best.

    Victoria Loeb:

    It is, I think.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. Oh my God, your friends, you must have come home and been like, “She’s sober?”

    Victoria Loeb:

    “She’s cool.” My friends would come over and you’d be like, butt-naked blow drying your hair. And I’m like, “Yeah, it’s just you know.” They were like, “Nice to meet you Ashley.”

    Marina Loeb:

    And you were like, “Hey.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I know. I think I started body confidence long before that was a thing.

    Marina Loeb:

    Totally. I actually just realized that like when I visited you in Arizona too, I think you and Donnie were going on an adventure, but it involved a lot of guns. And you were driving somewhere with too many guns. I mean, it freaked me out, but I also did have to stay back and do homework. So I just wrote-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And you would go into like the woods and shoot guns. It was a very different world.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, right. I was actually like pretty thrilled about writing that essay. [crosstalk 02:10:01].

    Victoria Loeb:

    Go ahead.

    Marina Loeb:

    Me?

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah you.

    Marina Loeb:

    Oh no. I was just like, “Oh, I’m not going to go and die today.” But that was my thought, I was like, “No, not at all.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Tory was like, “I’m down to die. Let’s go.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. This is also, there’s a theme here of the bachelorette when we went snorkeling in a lightning storm. And Marina is like, “Guess I’m going to die. Okay. All right.”

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I was like, “No, not interested. We’re already on a boat. It’s cold.” And I was hanging out with another defector. We were just like, “No, we just don’t want to go.” And then lightning started happening. And I think it was like, Mona was starting to walk down the stairs and I was like, “Wait can we get electrocuted if lightning hits the water?” I don’t know, but it’s something about like, “At least we’ll die together,” or something. And I was like, “Oh my God. Yeah. I don’t want to be the only sister alive.” And then I ran down the stairs to go with you. I was like, “You guys are not dying and leaving me alive.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    You ran down the stairs to come with us. And we were like, “Okay, Marina drama.” And you’re coming down, and you’re like, “Well, if everyone’s going to die, I’m not going to die by myself. I’m going to die with my sisters.” And then your top falls off.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was going to live. I remember thinking, “Sorry mom and dad, but I’m not living through this one. We’re all going down together.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. And you were dead serious. Everyone was like, “Ha, ha.” And you’re like, “No, I’m serious.” And then you flashed everyone in the boat.

    Victoria Loeb:

    The best part was we were getting back in the boat and you were making fun, or she made fun of you because you fell. You tried to get back into the boat. And then Marina gets back into the boat and she’s wearing, it’s like a demi cup bathing suit.

    Marina Loeb:

    Too small.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And it’s maybe a 15 person rowboat or motorboat situation. And you get in-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    All metal.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You get off the ladder, and it’s just like full boob out of the bathing suit, you’re like a foot, from a family. “And, wait what?” And we’re just like pointing, hysterically laughing.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was like on stage. It was like everyone was facing me. I was too cold. I couldn’t feel it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And then we had to all sit in the boat together. A tiny rowboat.

    Marina Loeb:

    I know. I know. And then I was like, as long as it looks good, fine, I can live with it. If it looked really bad, I’d have more trouble.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God.

    Victoria Loeb:

    That was so good.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    That was hysterical.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah. I knew there was instant karma. When I laughed after you slipped off the ladder, I was like, I just feel karma on my back. Turns out it’s on my chest.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh God. Well, you guys are my best friends and I love you so much. And I’m so grateful for your support through this crazy ass journey. Yeah, I think, do you guys talk to other people about, like support other people when they have siblings going through addiction stuff, do you ever use your experience to help other people?

    Victoria Loeb:

    I mean, yeah. I don’t think I have like-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    No, Nope. I have a very specific set of skills that no one wants.

    Marina Loeb:

    That too, can be true.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I say to them, “Oh, I totally get it. I have this sister and she’s really helpful to talk to and I’m going to give you her number.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, my God. Amazing.

    Marina Loeb:

    Especially with my boyfriend’s mom, I think that’s also, even though she’s more of a train wreck than you ever were, which I guess it’s a little harder. But yeah. I mean, I honestly, I think some in that case it’s so severe that I just prefer that you talk to them directly.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I get that a lot.

    Marina Loeb:

    Yeah, right. You’re like wait-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Tory is a big fan of that move.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Let me help you over here. This is how I’m going to help you, by sending you to my sister who is-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I’m going to empower you to talk to my sister. Tory had me conference call into a bachelorette once and do a remote intervention. A remote intervention, consulting. Literally, I’m in bed-

    Victoria Loeb:

    We were in Nobu in Malibu. And we’re like, “God damn it.” We’re losing service, we’re like, “Call her back.” From the bathroom, “Call her back. What do we say?”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Full meltdown. I’m getting blow by blow. Dax is like, “What is going on?” It was like late, well, late for us. We were in bed, at 8:00.

    Victoria Loeb:

    It was dinner.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah, it was dinner, but we’re in bed. And he’s, “What is going on?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I’m walking them through an intervention.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And different people keep coming into the bathroom and then like different people keep going back to the table. They’re like, “What’s happening?” And it’s like, literally just like, okay, the next person gets on the phone with Ashley.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I kept getting handed off. Yeah. Oh my God. Amazing.

    Marina Loeb:

    What a time to have an intervention.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Very specific… I’m going to have to watch that movie immediately. I’m going to be Liam Neeson all night.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I can’t think of that movie and not think of, and I know I said this over the weekend, but just thinking about watching and being like, “Wow, if this happened to us and this was dad we’d be so screwed.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    He has a very specific set of skills and none of which would help us in a kidnapping.

    Victoria Loeb:

    He’d talk to the kidnapper and be like, “You know, we’re like leaves on the trees and leaves are going to die, and you’re going to regret this. So you should probably get them back.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. “Listen, let me just give you some advice. They’re very pricey and needy and you’re going to want to let them go.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    “Let me explain to you how the world works. It’s a very small world. This will come back to haunt you.” Let me tell you this, one time I was at Sega and [crosstalk 02:16:27] I met this guy there, who was my boss prior.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And we say of fighters play up close. And the guy would be like, “Okay, if you stop calling me and telling me stories, I will give your children back.”

    Victoria Loeb:

    You’ll be like, that would be as his strategy all along. Super self-aware.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Like what?

    Victoria Loeb:

    That’s his strategy all along, super self-aware about it. It’s just like, “I knew one day, this would pay off.”

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh, wow. Do you guys have anything that you want to say to the listeners? Don’t jump at-

    Marina Loeb:

    I have to think about it.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Don’t do drugs.

    Marina Loeb:

    Don’t do drugs.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God. I think if people are coming here, that’s like a little late for them.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, a little late.

    Marina Loeb:

    Okay, I would say that if you have a sibling or maybe any other family member who has a problem and they act like a butt head for a while and they struggle to get well, to just keep in touch and give chances to change your mind because people do get better. And when they become more themselves, as they get better, it’s a relief and they’re sort of who you always wanted them to be. And sometimes if you stay really far away because you’re pissed, or you’re so afraid of being disappointed again, you can actually miss their recovery, basically, in the lowercase R form of the word. You can live with the bitterness for a long time, totally unnecessarily.

    Marina Loeb:

    And also keeping in more close contact and following that journey allows you to understand what really was causing them to be so hurtful. And the benefits of that can extend intensely in the whole rest of your life in ways you didn’t expect at all.

    Marina Loeb:

    So it’s really, really hard to do that when you feel so powerless and hurt over and over, but to remember that that’s normal, and that it’s not necessarily permanent and that this is how it goes, it’s just going to be more helpful for what you ultimately want.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I like that. Thank you.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. And I mean, I would say that I definitely agree with those things in a slightly different way, which is just that whether you are the person struggling or you’re close to somebody who’s struggling, it’s your family, it’s a unique relationship where you do get more chances in some ways than your friends often. And so just to keep trying to basically build empathy with them, to either understand what they are going through, or if you’re the ones struggling, to continue sharing your struggle to build empathy with your family members. Because I think sometimes it is hard to understand from the outside, especially if you don’t struggle with addiction yourself or the family member doesn’t, it’s hard to understand, but I think if you keep trying, you can build common ground.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And I think that can really strengthen the relationship and allow you to both either get the support that you need or have the relationship with the family member. Because obviously it’s not just you recover and then you’re done, it’s a lifelong recovery, a lifelong struggle. And so part of having a relationship is understanding and having empathy for those low points and being able to support someone through them.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And feeling supported. I think, again, your family, unlike a job or unlike a friend where, if you bail on them, they’re going to be less forgiving than your family, if you build a close relationship you do have that unconditional support that I think can be unmatched.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Do you think that it was helpful for you guys to come to meetings and just see it in action and hear the stories and stuff for yourself without being taught it, but really seeing it?

    Marina Loeb:

    I just enjoy meetings. I mean, just speaking for myself, I think that they’re enlightening, honestly, there’s a lot of humor in a lot of meetings that I’ve been to. And then there’s a lot of that shock. But I think because I’m so used to your stories, that I’m a little less shy. But yeah, I think that what really helps is seeing all the different kinds of people who remind you of people you would never suspect had this problem and that. And they get up and they tell these stories and it makes you realize like, oh my God, this is the secret so many people share. So in that way, I think that that it opens your heart a little bit.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. I was just going to say, yeah, I think it like builds humanity. I think, being empathetic and when people are struggling is I think, again, a lot of times, I think in life, you don’t really have the opportunity to show that compassion with strangers because a lot of times maybe you’re watching it on video or you watch someone’s story, but you read an article, but you’re not necessarily sitting in a room with someone who’s sharing those personal details.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I mean, seeing a 40 year old man cry because he’s able to see his kids and wife and I think it’s just, yeah, it’s a super powerful experience. Yeah. And I think I definitely recommend for people that have family in rehab and treatment centers who are recovering to go to those family sessions. I think having structure can lead to deeper conversations that you wouldn’t otherwise have. And certainly education about mental illness and the struggles, if you are not personally familiar with the struggles.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. I saw a lot of good come from the family experiences. And I think that a lot of those conversations just aren’t going to happen unless they’re facilitated. I know it can be scary for a lot of people, a lot of parents, and they’re scared their going to come up and what they’re going to get called out on, but the healing, there’s nothing that’s going to come up, that those people doing the facilitating haven’t seen. I mean, we’ve seen it all.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. I think going back to, harping on the same thing, but if somebody’s there, they are in a place where they’re at least open to hear you out. And so I think that’s hopefully a comfort of you wouldn’t come to that. I think having the ability to go in open and not judging and wanting to move forward, I think that obviously makes it a lot better. But typically the fear is not really aligned with the intention that the person has that’s coming to a session like that.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. And one thing that just came to me, Tory was that also, I think I do hear about a lot of families that don’t want to bring their young children to the sessions. And you came very young. And I think the mistake is to think that that’s corrupting them when they were privy to all the things that were going on in the house, all the fighting, all the screaming, all the seeing what they saw or whatever. And the value, I’m really glad that mom and dad let you come to a lot. Because I started going to treatments when you were very young and they let you come to the various family weeks.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    And I think that I do see a lot of parents who were like, “Well, she’s too young to like be a part of this.” I’m like, “Well, she’s not too young to live at home and watch it all go down.” Might as well let her be part of the conversation of like, what the hell is going on and how do we get better, and some of that understanding. And because the kids understand a lot more than you think they do. And they’re going to absorb the recovery piece as well, not just the leaving you in the dark when you were watching me overdose and use drugs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, wouldn’t have kept you more innocent or whatever the goal is.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    So I think that that was just a piece that popped into my head about your age and you coming to those things.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Yeah. I think too, it kind of, not primes you is the wrong word, but creates openness for also therapy and mental health and self care. Which, I mean, I guess that’s just a positive side effect of you realize, you see all different types of families in there. And that’s also interesting to see that it looks different for different people. But I think also too, it definitely created more openness for me, despite my first therapy experience, having a therapist tell me that I talked too much.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh my God.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I was like, “Yes, I know.” But yeah, but I think it did lead to more openness and dealing with my own crap and going to therapy and healthier behaviors long-term.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Although, it drives all of our partners completely bat shit crazy. And they all make fun of us for the incredible amount of emotional depth and conversations we have.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. Everyone has emotional problems and every person is analyzed for what’s happening with their emotions.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah. They make fun of us endlessly. That’s fine. They just don’t know. They want to be in the club and they can’t be, and it’s okay.

    Marina Loeb:

    Exactly.

    Victoria Loeb:

    It’s because of their emotional problems.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Exactly.

    Victoria Loeb:

    And we’re analyzing emotions.

    Marina Loeb:

    I was literally just thinking that where it was like, oh, I’m sorry, but that sounds like it’s coming from someone who is afraid of looking at some feelings.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh, my poor partners too.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Oh yes. We’ve all been told by our partners at some point in time that we have masculine energy.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah, I take it as a compliment.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Me too. We got this. Well Leob ladies, Leob sisters, I love you dearly to the end of the earth and thank you for all of your support and all of our fun times and all of the treatments and all the shit. All the good, the bad, the ugly. So it’s been super fun having you on. And hopefully people will listen and have some sort of epiphany or at the very least have a laugh from our lengthy episode.

    Marina Loeb:

    At least at the Liam Neeson.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I hope so. I hope that hits home.

    Marina Loeb:

    I feel like that’s been a really, really,-

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yeah I really ran that one into the ground. I couldn’t get it out of my head so I just kind of went with it.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Oh my gosh. Well we love you too. And thank you for having us on the pod.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    My pleasure.

    Victoria Loeb:

    A big sis to look up to.

    Marina Loeb:

    Me too.

    Victoria Loeb:

    [crosstalk 02:28:40] You lead us.

    Marina Loeb:

    I know it was like, wait, if she’s big sis.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Biggest sis.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Really?

    Victoria Loeb:

    You’re middle sis.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Jesus Christ.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Middle sis.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    I don’t want to be known as the biggest anything.

    Victoria Loeb:

    You can just be big sis. Or you can be the middle sis.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    The eldest. [crosstalk 02:29:05] No, not oldest, the eldest.

    Victoria Loeb:

    The eldest.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Eldest.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Wisest.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Yes, I’ve learned all of my wisdom for my days in meth houses. I love that. Sometimes I’m like, “Did I make a career off of doing drugs as a teenager?” Because that’s interesting.

    Victoria Loeb:

    I mean, it’s again,

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Enterprising. I was like, okay, I did all this. What am I going to do with it? I got to be enterprising.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Yeah. That’s real.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    Awesome. All right, well we’ll talk soon. Love you.

    Marina Loeb:

    Cool. Love you too.

    Victoria Loeb:

    Love you too. Bye.

    Ashley Loeb Blassingame:

    This podcast is sponsored by lionrock.life. Lionrock.life is a recovery community offering free online support group meetings, useful recovery information and entertainment. Visit www.lionrock.life to view the meeting schedule and find additional resources. Find the joy in recovery at lionrock.life 

    Ashley Jo Brewer

    Ashley Avatar

    Ashley Jo is one of the producers of The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast team. With over a decade of experience working with C-level executives and directing corporate training events, she brings extensive production experience to Lionrock. In early 2020, she made a significant career change and stepped into the realm of podcasting.

    Her recovery experience includes substance abuse, codependency, grief and loss, and sexual assault and trauma. Ashley Jo enjoys supporting others in recovery by connecting with people and being a leader. She shared her story in Season 3, Episode 92 of The Courage to Change.